LegCo Paper No. CB(2) 1810/95-96
Ref : CB2/H/5
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As Mr Jonathan DAW, the Legal Adviser, would be leaving the LegCo Secretariat soon, the Chairman expressed appreciation and thanks on behalf of the House Committee to him for the professional service he had provided to Members throughout his service with the LegCo Secretariat.
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(LegCo Paper No. CB(2) 1736/95-96)
The Chairman said that Mr Paul CHENG Ming-fun had advised that he was present at the last meeting. Subject to an amendment to the attendance record, the minutes were confirmed.
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The Chairman advised members that he had discussed with the Governor the case of non-Chinese ethnic minorities. According to a copy of the Administration's paper on the estimated population of ethnic minorities in Hong Kong provided to him by the Governor, there were about 8,000 people in the ethnic minorities, and their ethnic origins could be categoried as follows : Indian (40%), Pakistani (18%), Portuguese (9%) and others (33%). The Governor had undertaken to pursue further with the British Government and the Labour Party the granting of British citizenship to the ethnic minorities, and failing that, the issue of a letter on the Prime Minister's guarantee of admission to the UK for settlement after 1997 to each of the ethnic minorities.
( Post-meeting note : The Administration's paper was tabled at the meeting and circulated to Members under LegCo Paper No. CB(2) 1796/95-96 on 5.7.96.)
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The Chairman said that the Governor had agreed to press the British Government for an early debate. However, the indications were that a debate might be held in Autumn.
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The Chairman said that in response to his letter written on behalf of the House Committee, the Governor had given a reply. The relevant Panels would follow up the issue.
( Post-meeting note : The letter was circulated to Members under LegCo Paper No. CB(2) 1792/95-96 on 5.7.96.)
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CAS(2)3
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The Chairman referred members to the Director of Administration's letter dated 4.7.96 tabled at the meeting (at Appendix I) and drew their attention to a revised priority list for the Government Bills already introduced and those to be introduced on 10.7.96 (Annex A), and a list of Bills already introduced into LegCo which needed to be passed before 1.7.97 (Annex B).
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In response to Miss Margaret NG, the Chairman said that members had agreed previously that in acceding to the request of the Administration to give priority to Government Bills on the waiting list, the order of the Bills Committees on Member's Bills should not be affected as a result. On this occasion, the revised priority proposed by the Administration would have no implications on Member's Bills as there was none on the waiting list.
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Miss Margaret NG and Mr Albert HO Chun-yan suggested and members agreed that the Director of Administration be requested to advise on :
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- details of the 16 bills to be introduced in the 1996/97 session (last paragraph of the letter) and any other bills (including those for adaptation and localisation of laws) which must be passed before 1.7.97;
- reasons for the proposed priority of the Government Bills listed in Annex A; and
- reasons for the six Bills listed in Annex B to be enacted before 1.7.97.
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The Chairman said that the Administration had explained that it could not provide information on bills to be introduced in the following session; such information was still confidential because the bills' introduction into LegCo had yet to be approved by ExCo. However, as in past years, the Legislative Programme announced by the Governor in his 1996 Policy Address would set out the main pieces of legislation to be introduced into LegCo in the 1996/97 session. Nevertheless, he would convey members' suggestion to the Chief Secretary.
( Post-meeting note : The Chairman raised the matter with the Acting Chief Secretary on 9.7.96. The Director of Administration's reply dated 12.7.96 was circulated to members vide LegCo Paper No. CB(2) 1876/95-96 on 16.7.96.)
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The Chairman said that he had conveyed to the Acting Chief Secretary members' suggestion that the Administration should take into account the views of users, in addition to those of LegCo members, before proceeding with the pilot scheme.
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The Chairman said that he had conveyed members' query about the timing of the three Budget sittings to the Acting Chief Secretary who replied that because of the Easter holidays, there would be a time gap either between the First and Second Budget sittings, or between the Second and Third Budget sittings. The Administration preferred to avoid the gap between the Second and Third Budget sittings.
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The Chairman said that of the 36 members who replied in response to a circular issued by the Secretariat, the majority would not be in Hong Kong during the period from end of July to end of August. He sought members' views on whether Bills Committee meetings should continue to be held during the summer recess.
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Mr Michael HO Mun-ka was concerned that Secretariat staff would not be able to take leave if committee meetings would be held during summer. In response to the Chairman, the Secretary General said that vacation leave earned by staff in the first year of an agreement, if not taken, would be forfeited after the second year. In view of the heavy workload during the session, Secretariat staff normally took their leave during summer.
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Having regard to the availability of conference room facilities, the availability of Members and the need for Secretariat staff to take leave during the summer recess, the Chairman suggested and members agreed that committees, particularly new Bills Committees, should avoid holding meetings in August as far as possible.
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All CASs in CBD1 and 2
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The Chairman said that pursuant to the House Committee's endorsement of the recommendation of the Panel on Environmental Affairs on 17.5.96, he had written to the Chief Secretary whose reply had been circularized to all members. The Panel would take the necessary follow-up action.
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CAS(1)1
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(LegCo Paper No. LS 187/95-96)
The Legal Adviser drew members' attention to the Inland Revenue (Qualifying Debt Instruments) Order (item 2). According to the LegCo Brief, the Kowloon Canton Railway Corporation might need to raise funds in the debt market later for its future development, e.g. for the Western Corridor Railway.
Members agreed to support the subsidiary legislation.
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(LegCo Paper No. CB(2) 1752/95-96)
Members noted the report.
The Chairman said that one Bills Committee would report to this meeting. Having regard to the Administration's revised priority of Government Bills in Annex A of Appendix I, members agreed that the Bills Committee on the Telecommunication (Amendment) Bill 1996 would be activated.
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(LegCo Paper No. LS 191/95-96)
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Miss Margaret NG said that as the Administration had not fully answered her queries in relation to the proposed amendment to the Supreme Court Ordinance, she would seek further clarification. She suggested and members agreed to defer a decision on the Bill.
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(LegCo Paper No. LS 189/95-96)
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The Legal Adviser said that the Bill had important legal and policy implications, in particular the proposed statutory powers of Government officials to change the identity of a protected witness. Miss Margaret NG suggested and members agreed to set up a Bills Committee. The following members agreed to join : Miss Emily LAU Wai-hing, Mr James TO Kun-sun (as advised by Mr LEE Wing-tat), Mr IP Kwok-him and Miss Margaret NG.
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(LegCo Paper No. LS 188/95-96)
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The Legal Adviser referred members to the paper and said that the Bill mainly dealt with recovery of charges for waste disposal. According to its objects, the Bill was legally in order.
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In response to Mr James TIEN regarding paragraph 5 of the paper, the Legal Adviser said that the Bill introduced regulation making powers for the Director of Environmental Protection to, inter alia, appoint a person to collect on his behalf any charge or security. The regulations would be in the form of subsidiary legislation which members could scritinize within a statutory time limit after they were tabled in LegCo, if members chose not to set up a Bills Committee at this stage.
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In response to Mr James TIEN, Dr John TSE Wing-ling, chairman of the Panel on Environmental Affairs, said that the Bill had not been discussed by the Panel because it had no policy implications. Dr TSE suggested and members agreed to form a Bills Committee to study the Bill. The following members agreed to join : Mr James TIEN Pei-chun, Dr LAW Cheung-kwok, Mr MOK Ying-fan, Mr NGAN Kam-chuen and Dr John TSE Wing-ling.
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(LegCo Paper No. CB(3) 1026/95-96)
20 questions (six oral and 14 written) had been tentatively scheduled.
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The Chairman advised members that Mrs Selina CHOW, in her capacity as the chairperson of the Subcommittee, would move the above resolution to repeal the Regulation. He added that Mr SIN Chung-kai had also given notice to move a motion to amend the Administration's proposal on the fees payable for the issue and renewal of licence, and that the President had yet to give his approval for this item to be included in the Order Paper.
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The Chairman said that the House Committee had endorsed the draft Chinese version of the Standing Orders on 21.6.96, and that Mr Ronald ARCULLI would move the motion in his capacity as the Deputy Chairman of the House Committee.
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(Member's Bill to be introduced by Mrs Elizabeth WONG)
(Member's Bill to be introduced by Mr SIN Chung-kai)
(Member's Bill to be introduced by Mr SIN Chung-kai)
The Chairman advised members that apart from the above Bills, Miss Christine LOH's Sex and Disability Discrimination (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 1996 would also be introduced into LegCo on 10.7.96 and considered by the House Committee on 20.9.96.
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The Chairman said that the Administration had requested the House Committee to consider whether a Bills Committee on the Commissioner for Administrative Complaints (Amendment) Bill 1996 would be formed at this meeting, in anticipation of the introduction of the Bill into LegCo on 10.7.96. The Bill currently ranked third on the revised priority list proposed by the Administration at Annex A of Appendix I. Miss Margaret NG said that the Administration should provide reasons for such an exceptional arrangement.
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The Legal Adviser advised members that the Legal Service Division's report on the Bill was prepared out of order, in response to the Administration's special request. As the report was prepared at short notice, the Senior Assistant Legal Adviser briefed members on the objects of the Bill as set out in LegCo Paper No. LS 192/95-96, the Chinese version of which was tabled at the meeting (at Appendix II).
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The Chairman requested members to indicate at the meeting whether they would want a Bills Committee to study the Bill. The Secretariat would seek members' formal agreement on the setting up of a Bills Committee by the circulation of a paper after the Bill was introduced into LegCo on 10.7.96.
( Post-meeting note : LegCo Paper No. CB(2) 1842/95-96 dated 11.7.96 refers.)
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Members indicated that they would agree in principle to set up a Bills Committee. The following members would agree to join : Miss Emily LAU Wai-hing, Mr LEE Cheuk-yan, Mr HO Chun-yan and Miss Margaret NG.
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(Member's Bill introduced by Mr Edward S T HO)
The Chairman said that members had agreed at the last meeting that the above Bills should have their Second Reading debates resumed on 10.7.96. He advised members that the Administration had decided to defer the Noise Control (Amendment) Bill 1996 (item (viii) above) until further notice.
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As a fairly large number of Committee Stage Amendments would be moved to the Bills at the sitting on 10.7.96, the Chairman said that the Deputy Chairman of the House Committee would move a motion without notice to shorten the duration of the division bell of certain divisions from three minutes to one minute, if necessary. Members agreed.
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(LegCo Paper No. CB(2) 1701/95-96)
Members noted that Mrs Selina CHOW, chairperson of the Subcommittee, had made a verbal report at the last meeting.
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Mr Edward S T HO, chairman of the Bills Committee, said that the Bills Committee recommended that, subject to the House Committee's agreement, the Second Reading debate on the Bill should take place on 10.7.96.
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Mr HO added that the main purpose of the Bill was to empower the Commissioner for Labour to issue improvement notices (IN) and suspension notices (SN), and to create the offence of failure to comply with the terms of an IN or SN. The deliberations of the Bills Committee were summarized as follows :
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(i) The Bills Committee was in support of the proposal on IN;
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(ii) On the procedure for the issue of SN, the Bills Committee considered that an amendment should be introduced to provide that prior to the issue of SN, the visiting inspector should first issue to the proprietor on the spot a written notice (instead of a verbal notification) stating the intention to issue a SN on him and specifying the circumstances which warranted such SN. While the Administration was agreeable to the proposed procedure, it did not see the need for this to be included in the legislation. Mr HO would therefore move the necessary CSAs in his capacity as the chairman of Bills Committee;
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(iii) The Administration would include in its procedural guide an instruction to issue a SN as soon as possible and in any case not later than 24 hours after the inspection; and
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(iv) On an application for review of the issue of SN, the Administration was prepared to give proprietors a choice of whether or not to refer his case to the Committee on Industrial Safety and Health so as to shorten the time for the review.
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Mr HO said that the written report of the Bills Committee would be circulated to members shortly.
( Post-meeting note : The report of the Bills Committee (LegCo Paper No. CB(1) 1782/95-96) was circulated to Members under LegCo Paper No. CB(2) 1816/95-96 on 9.7.96.)
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Members noted that Mr Ronald ARCULLI had proposed to introduce a new clause to the Bill to the effect that compliance of IN by the proprietor or contractor would not imply or should not be construed as an admission of having committed the offences. As Mr ARCULLI was not in Hong Kong, the Legal Service Division was still awaiting his instructions on the proposed CSAs.
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Mr Michael HO said that the Administration had sought legal advice on Mr ARCULLI's proposed new clause and indicated that it would not accept the inclusion of the proposed clause in the legislation because it would undermine the Administration's authority in taking prosecution actions. He would like to have more information on the Administration's legal advice. In response, Assistant Legal Adviser 1 said that Mr HO's concern was conveyed to the Secretary for Education and Manpower who undertook to provide a reply in writing. Members noted that the reply would be circulated to them upon receipt.
( Post-meeting note : The reply is attached at Appendix IV to the Bills Committee report.)
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The Chairman advised members that, subject to the recommendation of the House Committee, the President would agree to give permission for the Second Reading debate on the Bill to take place at the sitting on 10.7.96 and to extend the deadline for submitting the notice of CSAs until 5:00 p.m. on Monday, 8.7.96. Members agreed to make such a recommendation to the President.
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(LegCo Paper No. CB(2) 1745/95-965)
The Chairman referred members to the paper, and on behalf of the House Committee, expressed appreciation and thanks for the hard work and contribution of the Assistant Legal Advisers of the Authentication Project Team.
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A list of the main findings of the enquiry and recommendations of the Panel was tabled at the meeting (at Appendix III).
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Mr LAU Chin-shek, chairman of the Panel, said that in conducting the enquiry, the Panel had held 24 internal/group meetings and 17 meetings to obtain evidence from 34 witnesses including Government officials, imported workers and representatives from the principal contractors and subcontractors in the new airport project. After looking into the circumstances surrounding the series of labour disputes involving some 2,500 imported workers for the ACP, the Panel had made recommendations in relation to the processing of applications for the importation of workers.
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Mr LAU said that the report had been made available for Members' collection in the morning, and would be tabled at the LegCo sitting on 10.7.96.
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Mr LAU also thanked the staff of the LegCo Secretariat for their assistance throughout the Panel's deliberations on the subject.
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- The Initial Report of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in respect of Hong Kong under Article 44 of the Convention on the Rights of the Child; and
- The Supplementary Report by the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in respect of Hong Kong under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights
(LegCo Paper No. CB(2) 1742/95-96)
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Mr Albert HO Chun-yan, chairman of the Panel, reported and sought members' agreement to paragraph 8 of the paper.
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Members agreed to endorse the draft submissions on the Initial Report under the Convention on the Rights of the Child and the Supplementary Report under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Members also agreed to send delegations of the House Committee to Geneva to attend the hearings of the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child (CRC) and the UN Human Rights Committee (HRC), in early and end of October respectively.
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The Chairman said that a third delegation to Geneva to attend the hearing of the UN Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights in November 1996 would also be proposed at a later stage. In addition, a delegation to London would also be sent if a House of Commons debate on Hong Kong would be held. Taking into account that there was $400,000 for Members' overseas duty visits in 1996/97, the budget for the four delegations was proposed as below :
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(i) Three Delegations to Geneva $80,000 each
(ii) Delegation to London $160,000
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The Chairman supplemented that for the delegations at (i), the budget proposed would be able to finance two Members traveling on business class. In the event that more than two Members were interested to join each of the delegations, any expenses in excess of the approved budget should be shared amongst participating Members.
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In response to Miss Margaret NG, the Secretary General said that the provision of $400,000 was drawn up on the basis of visits made in the last financial year. Should members consider the provision inadequate, the Secretariat could redeploy resources from other areas, but the related services might be affected.
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Members raised no objection to the proposed budget for the delegations. The Secretariat would issue a circular to invite interested Members to join the two delegations to attend the hearings of the UNCRC and UNHRC.
( Post-meeting note : LegCo Paper No. CB(2) 1807/95-96 issued on 9.7.96 refers.)
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(LegCo Paper No. AS 259/95-96)
Members agreed that the next election of The Legislative Council Commission be held at the House Committee meeting on 11.10.96.
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In response to Miss Emily LAU, the Secretary General said that the manner of election was set out in the Appendix to the paper. The Chairman suggested that further discussion could be held at a House Committee meeting before the election, if necessary.
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(LegCo Paper No. CB(2) 1711/95-96)
Members noted the provisional dates of House Committee meetings for the 1996/97 session and that two special meetings would be scheduled on 20.9.96 and 27.9.96.
( Post-meeting note : Taking into account the leave plans of members during the summer recess, the Chairman decided that the election of the Chairman and Deputy Chairman of the House Committee of the 1996/97 session would be held at the meeting on 27.9.96, instead of 20.9.96.)
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Miss Emily LAU suggested that an additional House Committee meeting be scheduled for 27.6.97, after the last LegCo sitting on 25.6.97.
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Miss Margaret NG asked whether the end date of the 1996/97 session had been appointed by the Governor, and whether 27.6.97 (the proposed date for the last House Committee meeting) would be after the session. The Secretary General replied that the Governor had yet to appoint the end date for the next session.
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In response to the Chairman, the Legal Adviser said that in his view, it was in order for the House Committee to decide on a provisional basis that a meeting be held on 27.6.97, subject to whatever further action being taken by the Governor under the two constitutional instruments.
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On Mr SZETO Wah's question on whether Members were allowed to enter LegCo Building on the public holidays on 28, 29 and 30.6.97, the Legal Adviser said that until mid-night on 30.6.97, LegCo was in existence unless it was dissolved by the Governor by Order prior to that date. He added that he had heard nothing from the Government about a dissolution of LegCo, and it was his understanding that the Governor would appoint a normal end date for the 1996/97 session. Mr SZETO said that he had asked the Governor at the Governor's Question Time whether he would dissolve LegCo on or before 30.6.97, and the Governor had replied in the negative. Dr YEUNG Sum suggested and members agreed that the Chairman would request the Governor to clarify the matter.
( Post-meeting note : Mr SZETO Wah raised the subject at the Governor's Question Time on 18.4.96.)
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Chairman
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Members agreed that an additional House Committee meeting be provisionally scheduled for 27.6.97.
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The Chairman referred members to the reply from the Minister of State. Apart from the subject of British citizenship for wives and widows of ex-servicemen, there was no visible progress on the other issues raised. He hoped that the issues could be pursued further by the Members' delegation to UK when a House of Commons debate on Hong Kong was held in the near future.
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Mr Martin LEE considered the reply unacceptable, in particular on the subject of "Breaches of Joint Declaration". He suggested members to discuss what further action should be taken.
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In response to members, the Legal Adviser said that one of the issues covered in the correspondence was "Breaches of Joint Declaration". The House Committee resolved to follow up the issue by seeking more information on the statement made by both the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary that Britain would explore all legal and other avenues available to ensure that the Joint Declaration was honoured. The reply of the Minister was the same as that given to members before, and did not attempt to give answers to any of the specific questions raised.
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Miss Emily LAU suggested and members agreed that the Chairman should follow up the matter by writing to the Prime Minister along the following lines :
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Chairman
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Hong Kong Special Administrative Region Passport and Visa-free travel for its holders
To request the British Government to provide a list of countries which it had approached on the subject.
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Non-Chinese ethnic minorities
To reiterate members' stance that British citizenship should be granted to the ethnic minorities, and failing that, letters on the Prime Minister's guarantee should be issued to individual members of the ethnic minority groups.
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Breaches of Joint Declaration
To convey members' dissatisfaction that the Minister had not replied to any of the specific questions raised and that the British Government's previous reply on the subject did not contain any substantive response.
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Miss LAU said that the letter should also cover the following issues :
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(i) to press again for a House of Commons debate on Hong Kong so that the various issues of concern could be raised and addressed in the debate; and
(ii) to convey members' concern that many of the issues discussed by the Sino-British Joint Liaison Group had remained unresolved.
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The Chairman said that the Panel on Environmental Affairs had discussed on 3.7.96 the subject of population estimates and population projections. The Panel noted that the projected population for the year 2011 was over 8 million, and was concerned whether the figure was accurate and if it had included Chinese immigrants. The Panel was of the view that all policy branches should take into account demographic projections in planning their respective spheres of work, and agreed that the matter should be brought to the attention of the House Committee. The Chairman asked all Panel chairmen to consider discussing the subject with the respective policy branches and report back to the House committee, if necessary. The Administration's paper provided to the Panel would be circulated to members for information.
( Post-meeting note : The paper was circulated to Members under LegCo Paper No. CB(1) 1711/95-96 on 28.6.96.)
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All CASs in CBD1 and 2
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Mr LEE Wing-tat advised members that a joint meeting of the Panels on Transport; Environmental Affairs; Planning, Lands and Works; and Housing would be held on 16.7.96 to discuss "Territorial Development Strategy Review".
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Mrs Selina CHOW said that it was her intention to propose the setting up of a Select Committee to review the Sewage Services Trading Fund at the LegCo sitting on 10.7.96. Having noted the Legal Adviser's advice that any Select Committee set up would be dissolved at the end of the session, she then proposed to include the above item for consideration at this meeting instead, and also to seek the endorsement of the House Committee for the Subcommittee to be authorized to exercise the powers to order the attendance of witnesses and the production of documents for the purpose of the review. However, taking into account the Administration's advice at the last LegCo sitting that the result of a review on the Sewage Services Trading Fund would be available early next year, and after reconsideration, she had come to the view that a Select Committee would be more appropriate for the task. She had therefore withdrawn the above item. Mrs CHOW said that she would put up the proposal of setting up a Select Committee to review the Sewage Services Trading Fund in the following LegCo session.
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Members noted Mr LEE Wing-tat's comments about the considerable resources needed to support the work of a Select Committee.
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The Chairman said that the President, Dr Samuel WONG and Mr Fred LI Wah-ming had agreed to attend the above conference. As Dr WONG had subsequently decided not to attend, any other Members who were interested to attend should inform the Secretariat by 12.7.96.
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The Chairman urged members to attend the above meeting. The Secretariat would issue a circular in this respect.
( Post-meeting note : The circular was issued on 9.7.96.)
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The Legal Adviser extended his thanks to the simultaneous interpreters led by Mrs Agnes AU for their dedicated work during the period when he was Legal Adviser.
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The meeting ended at 5:40 p.m.
Legislative Council Secretariat
19 July 1996
Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung, OBE, JP (Chairman)
