LegCo Paper No. CB(2) 1288/95-96
Ref : CB2/H/5

Legislative Council House Committee
(1995/96 Session)

Minutes of 26th meeting held in the LegCo Chamber
of the Legislative Council Building
on Friday, 10 May 1996 at 4:25 p.m.

Present :

    Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung, OBE, JP (Chairman)
    Hon Ronald ARCULLI, OBE, JP (Deputy Chairman)
    Hon Mrs Selina CHOW, OBE, JP
    Hon Martin LEE, QC, JP
    Hon SZETO Wah
    Hon Edward S T HO, OBE, JP
    Hon Mrs Miriam LAU Kin-yee, OBE, JP
    Hon Albert CHAN Wai-yip
    Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong
    Hon Frederick FUNG Kin-kee
    Hon Michael HO Mun-ka
    Hon Emily LAU Wai-hing
    Hon LEE Wing-tat
    Hon Eric LI Ka-cheung, JP
    Hon Fred LI Wah-ming
    Dr Hon Samuel WONG Ping-wai, MBE, FEng, JP
    Dr Hon YEUNG Sum
    Hon Howard YOUNG, JP
    Hon Zachary WONG Wai-yin
    Hon LEE Cheuk-yan
    Hon CHAN Kam-lam
    Hon CHAN Wing-chan
    Hon CHAN Yuen-han
    Hon Andrew CHENG Kar-foo
    Hon CHENG Yiu-tong
    Hon David CHU Yu-lin
    Hon Albert HO Chun-yan
    Hon IP Kwok-him
    Hon LAU Chin-shek
    Hon Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen, JP
    Dr Hon LAW Cheung-kwok
    Hon LAW Chi-kwong
    Hon LEE Kai-ming
    Hon LEUNG Yiu-chung
    Hon Bruce LIU Sing-lee
    Hon LO Suk-ching
    Hon MOK Ying-fan
    Hon Margaret NG
    Hon NGAN Kam-chuen
    Hon SIN Chung-kai
    Hon TSANG Kin-shing
    Dr Hon John TSE Wing-ling
    Hon Lawrence YUM Sin-ling

Absent :

    Hon Allen LEE, CBE, JP
    Dr Hon David K P LI, OBE, LLD (Cantab), JP
    Hon NGAI Shiu-kit, OBE, JP
    Hon LAU Wong-fat, OBE, JP
    Hon CHIM Pui-chung
    Dr Hon HUANG Chen-ya, MBE
    Hon Henry TANG Ying-yen, JP
    Hon James TO Kun-sun
    Dr Hon Philip WONG Yu-hong
    Hon Christine LOH Kung-wai
    Hon James TIEN Pei-chun, OBE, JP
    Hon Paul CHENG Ming-fun
    Dr Hon Anthony CHEUNG Bing-leung
    Hon CHEUNG Hon-chung
    Hon CHOY Kan-pui, JP
    Hon Mrs Elizabeth WONG, CBE, ISO, JP

In attendance :

    ASG2 (Clerk to the House Committee)

SG

LA

DSG

SALA

ASG1

ALA1

ALA2

ALA4

CASC

CPIO

CAS(HC)

SAS(HC)




(1) Confirmation of the minutes of the last meeting held on 3.5.96

(LegCo Paper No. CB(2) 1226/95-96)

The minutes were confirmed.

(2) Matters arising

(a) Report on Chairman’s meeting with the Chief Secretary (CS)

(i) Legislative programme for the remainder of the current session

The Chairman said that he had asked CS to provide details on the bills to be introduced for the remainder of the current session. CS had replied that it would not be possible as the bills had yet to be approved by ExCo. The Chairman advised members that 10 bills had so far been approved by ExCo for introduction into LegCo for the sittings scheduled from 15.5.96 - 5.6.96.

(ii) Slot reserved for scrutiny of subsidiary legislation

The Chairman sought members’ view on CS’ suggestion that the slot reserved for scrutiny of subsidiary legislation be released for bills. Having regard to the progress of Bills Committees and the need to set aside a slot for scrutiny of subsidiary legislation, members decided that the present system should remain unchanged.

(iii) Statements made by public officers under SO 20

In response to Miss Emily LAU’s suggestion that an understanding should be reached with the Administration that public officers should take the initiative to make statements on matters of importance at Council sittings under SO 20, the Chairman agreed to raise the matter with CS.

(b) The case of Mr YEUNG Hoi-keung

The Chairman said that he had raised the case with CS who replied that the Administration would deal with the case in a positive manner. He also drew members’ attention to the LegCo question to be raised by Mr Andrew CHENG Kar-foo concerning the Public Finance Ordinance. The wording of the question was attached to the agenda (item 7(a)).

In response to Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung and Mrs Selina CHOW, the Legal Adviser said that Mr CHENG’s question would help to clarify the policy and principle for award of compensation under the Ordinance. The application of this provision on a particular case would have no legal binding effects on any other previous cases as every case would have to be considered on its own merit. Nevertheless, the first case being used to establish the appropriate criteria for award of compensation would be very important.

Miss Margaret NG said that depending on the Administration’s response to Mr CHENG’s question, she considered it worthwhile for the policy aspect of the issue to be discussed by the Panel on Administration of Justice and Legal Services. Miss Emily LAU suggested that the issue should be discussed jointly by the relevant Panels. Members noted Mr Andrew CHENG Kar-foo’s advice that the Security Branch had been assuming the co-ordinating role on the matter. The Legal Adviser said that the role of the Finance Committee was also relevant as the case might involve financial expenditure.

(c) Costs in Criminal Cases Bill

The Chairman said that the House Committee had agreed to support the resumption of the Second Reading debate on the Bill at the LegCo sitting on 15.5.96, but the Administration had subsequently decided to defer the resumption date.

Mr Albert Ho Chun-yan, chairman of the Bills Committee formed earlier to study the Bill, said that the Administration had requested to have another meeting with the Bills Committee to discuss the Administration’s modified proposals.

Members agreed that the Bills Committee should be re-activated and submit a further report to the House committee upon conclusion of its discussion with the Administration.

(3) Legal Adviser’s report on the subsidiary legislation tabled in the Legislative Council on 8.5.96 (gazetted on 3.5.96)

(LegCo Paper No. LS 138/95-96)

The Legal Adviser drew members’ attention to item 1 which was related to increase in charges for disposal of chemical waste. Members agreed to support the subsidiary legislation.

(4) Position report on Bills Committees and Subcommittees

(LegCo Paper No. CB(2) 1244/95-96)

Members noted that the Immigration (Amendment) Bill 1996 had concluded its study and agreed to activate the Bills Committee to study the Bankruptcy (Amendment) Bill 1996.

(5) Further reports by the Legal Adviser on outstanding bills

(a) Betting Duty (Amendment) Bill 1996

(LegCo Paper No. LS 141/95-96)

Members noted the report and agreed to support the resumption of the Second Reading debate of the Bill on 15.5.96.

(b) Insurance Companies (Amendment) Bill 1996

(LegCo Paper No. LS 132/95-96)

Members noted the report and agreed to support the Bill.

(6) Legal Adviser’s report on bills referred to the House Committee under Standing Order 42(3A)

(a) Companies (Amendment) Bill 1996

(LegCo Paper No. LS 139/95-96)

The Legal Adviser said that the Bill raised important issues and recommended the setting up of a Bills Committee to study the Bill in detail. This was agreed.

The following members agreed to join the Bills Committee : Mrs Miriam LAU Kin-yee, Dr HUANG Chen-ya, Mr Eric LI Ka-cheung and Mr Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen.

(b) Employees’ Compensation (Amendment) Bill 1996

(LegCo Paper No. LS 134/95-96)

Members noted the report and agreed to support the Bill.

Mrs Miriam LAU advised members of her experience with the Dutiable Commodities (Amendment) (No 2) Bill 1996. As the House Committee decided on 3.5.96 to support the Bill, the Administration gave notice on 6.5.96 for the Bill to have its Second Reading debate resumed at the sitting on 15.5.96, and members were advised of the Bill’s resumption date on 8.5.96.

As the deadline for giving notice of Committee Stage amendments to a bill scheduled for resumption of Second Reading debate at the sitting on 15.5.96 was 6.5.96, she had to seek the President’s permission to waive the required notice.

Taking into account the requirement to give seven clear days’ notice for Committee Stage amendments, members agreed that the Administration should give 12 clear days’ notice for resumption in accordance with SO 42(3B)(d) in cases where any member had indicated that he wished to propose amendments.

(c) Noise Control (Amendment) Bill 1996

(LegCo Paper No. LS 136/95-96)

Members noted that the Legal Adviser would submit a further report on the Bill.

(7) Further Business for the LegCo sitting on 15.5.96

(a) Questions

(LegCo Paper No. CB(3) 755/95-96)

Members noted the revised subject of Mr Andrew CHENG Kar-foo’s question.

Mr IP Kwok-him spoke on behalf of Mr CHEUNG Hon-chung, who was not at the meeting. Mr CHEUNG wished to withdraw his oral question to be asked at the sitting on 15.5.96 concerning the use of tranquilizers by the Correctional Services Department. The reason was that the subject had been discussed by the Panel on Security on 6.5.96. Mr IP asked the House Committee to agree, if Mr CHEUNG withdrew the question, not to credit Mr CHEUNG with one question in the total number of questions that he had asked.

In response to the chairman, Deputy Secretary General said that if Mr CHEUNG had obtained the required information at the Panel meeting, the question he proposed to ask might be ruled out of order under SO 18(1)(k) - information found in accessible documents or ordinary works of reference.

Having regard to the circumstances described, members agreed that Mr CHEUNG would not be regarded as having asked an oral question at the sitting on 15.5.96, and that he could raise another question at the sitting on 29.5.96.

(b) Bills - resumption of debate on 2nd Reading, Committee Stage and 3rd Reading

(i) Gas Safety (Amendment) Bill 1996

(ii) Inland Revenue (Amendment) Bill 1996

(iii) Inland Revenue (Amendment) (No 2) Bill 1996

(iv) Inland Revenue (Amendment) (No 3) Bill 1996

(v) Business Registration (Amendment) Bill 1996

(vi) Estate Duty (Amendment) Bill 1996

(vii) Stamp Duty (Amendment) Bill 1996

(viii) Motor Vehicles (First Registration Tax) (Amendment) Bill 1996

(ix) Air Passenger Departure Tax (Amendment) Bill 1996

(x) Betting duty (Amendment) Bill 1996

(xi) Dutiable Commodities (Amendment) )(No 2) Bill 1996

The Chairman said that members had agreed at the meeting on 3.5.96 to support the above Bills. Members noted Mrs Miriam LAU’s advice that she would move a Committee Stage amendment to the Dutiable Commodities (Amendment) (No 2) Bill 1996.

(8) Business for the LegCo sitting on 22.5.96

(a) Questions

(LegCo Paper No. CB(3) 754/95-96)

The Chairman said that 20 questions (six oral and 14 written) had been tentatively scheduled.

(b) Statement

No statement had been notified.

(c) Government Motions

(i) Resolution under section 100A of the Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance (Cap 1) - to be moved by the Secretary for Security

(LegCo Paper No. LS 135/95-96)

Members agreed to support the resolution.

(ii) Resolution under sections 3, 4 and 6 of the Trading Funds Ordinance (Cap 430) - to be moved by the Secretary for Works

(LegCo Paper No. LS 137/95-96)

The Legal Adviser referred members to the report. Mr LEE Wing-tat suggested and members agreed to set up a subcommittee to study the resolution. The following members agreed to join : Mr LEE Wing-tat, Dr LAW Cheung-kwok, Mr LEE Kai-ming, Mr NGAN Kam-chuen and Mr SIN Chung-kai.

Members also agreed that the Administration should be requested to defer the resolution to a later sitting to facilitate the work of the Subcommittee.

(d) Bills - 1st and 2nd Readings

(i) Dogs and Cats (Amendment) Bill 1996

(ii) Factories and Industrial Undertakings (Amendment) Bill 1996

(iii) Telecommunication (Amendment) Bill 1996

The Chairman said that the above Bills would be introduced into LegCo on 22.5.96, and considered by the House Committee on 24.5.96.

(e) Motion debate on "Strengthening of civic education to youths" - to be moved by Mr LO Suk-ching

(f) Motion debate on "Provision of general public medical services at half the normal fees and charges to persons with disability and the elderly" - to be moved by Mr Fred LI Wah-ming

The Chairman said that the deadline for giving notice of amendments to the above motions, if any, was 15.5.96 and that the usual speaking arrangement should apply.

(9) Advance information on motion debates for the LegCo sitting on 29.5.96

(a) Motion debate on "Political neutrality of civil servants"

Members noted the wording of the motion to be moved by Mr SZETO Wah.

(b) Motion debate on "Legislation on fair trade"

Members noted the wording of the motion to be moved by Dr LAW Cheung-kwok.

The Chairman said that the deadlines for giving notice of, and amendments to, the above motions were 14.5.96 and 22.5.96 respectively.

(10) Reports by Panels/Bills Committees/Subcommittees

(a) Report by the Panel on Information Policy - Review of legislation having an impact on press freedom

(LegCo Paper No. CB(2) 1238/95-96)

Miss Emily LAU, chairman of the Panel, introduced the paper.

Members agreed to support the recommendation of the Panel as set out in paragraph 6 of the paper. The Chairman would write to the Chief Secretary on the matter.

(b) Report by the Bills Committee to study the Immigration (Amendment) Bill 1996

Mr Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen, chairman of the Bills Committee, gave a verbal report on the various concerns raised by the Bills Committee, the Administration’s response and proposed Committee Stage amendments, the different views of members of the Bills Committee and the Legal Adviser’s view. The Bills Committee recommended that the Bill should resume its Second Reading debate at the LegCo sitting on 22.5.96. A written report on the deliberations of the Bills Committee would be circulated to members.

The Chairman advised members that the deadline for giving notice of Committee Stage amendments to the Bill, if any, was 13.5.96.

(11) Any Other Business

(a) Security and Guarding Services (Amendment) Bill 1996

The Chairman referred members to Mr CHAN Kam-lam’s note and the Secretary for Security’s letter tabled at the meeting (Appendix). The letter was addressed to Mr Zachary WONG Wai-yin because he was the chairman of the Subcommittee previously set up to study the resolution under the Security and Guarding Services Ordinance.

Mr Zachary WONG Wai-yin said that members of the Democratic Party had reservations about allowing a bill to receive all three readings at one sitting, and were satisfied with the Administration’s actions to address various concerns raised by Mr CHAN. These included stepping up publicity efforts, and reaching out to all Mutual Aid Committees and Owners’ Corporations to provide assistance in applications for permits for security work. The Administration had also agreed not to resort to prosecution action against offenders in the initial three months after the legislative control on the security and guarding services had come into effect, unless verbal advice and written warnings were repeatedly ignored.

Mrs Selina CHOW reported that the Panel on Security was briefed on the Bill by Mr CHAN Kam-lam on 8.5.96. Representatives from the Administration and Mrs Miriam LAU, Chairman of the Security and Guarding Services Industry Authority (the Authority), were also present. The Panel did not make any recommendation as to whether or not to support the Bill. Mrs CHOW added that the Liberal Party would not support the proposed one-sitting procedure, or the Bill.

Mrs Miriam LAU updated members on the figures quoted by Mr CHAN in his note and briefly explained the publicity activities undertaken by the Authority and the Administration. She felt that it was important to let the watchmen know that they had to apply for permits before the deadline of 1.6.96. Postponing the commencement date of legislative control for six months would serve no useful purpose because it was common for people to take action at the last minute.

In response to Mr Bruce LIU Sing-lee, the Legal Adviser said that the policy of prosecution was in the hands of the Administration, which would be entitled to take a particular approach e.g. to issue verbal advice or written warnings before taking prosecution action, so long as the approach was consistent.

Mr LEE Cheuk-yan suggested that members should support the Bill in view of the number of watchmen who had yet to apply for permits. He suggested that the Bill should receive its first and second readings at the LegCo sitting on 22.5.96, and then have its Second Reading debate resumed at the sitting on 29.5.96.

Miss Emily LAU said that the one-sitting procedure should only be adopted under exceptional circumstances, and that the Bill should be processed under the normal procedure.

Members noted that under the normal procedure, the Bill, after its introduction into LegCo on 22.5.96, would be considered by the House Committee on 24.5.96. The House Committee would then decide whether to support the Bill or to set up a Bills Committee to study the Bill. In any event, under SO 42(3B)(c), resumption of Second Reading debate of the Bill at the first Council sitting following the House Committee meeting i.e. on 29.5.96 would be subject to both the House Committee’s recommendation and the President’s permission.

In response to Miss Emily LAU, Mr Zachary WONG said that the Administration had confirmed that applications for permits sent by mail would be accepted so long as the date of post-stamp was on or before 31.5.96. Mrs Miriam LAU said that, applications could be submitted in person to either the Police Licensing Office or the office of the Authority, and that she would check whether other locations could also receive applications.

Having listened to members’ views, Mr CHAN Kam-lam agreed not to seek the one-sitting procedure for the Bill on 22.5.96. He hoped to receive members’ support at the House Committee meeting on 24.5.96 for the Bill to have its Second Reading debate resumed on 29.5.96.

(b) House Committee meeting on 17.5.96

The Chairman said that the House Committee meeting on 17.5.96 would be held at 4:00 p.m., after the meeting of the Establishment Subcommittee.

(c) The case of Messrs AU Wing-cheung and WONG Chuen-ming

The Chairman said that he had received from the Supreme Court of the Philippines a copy of the Judgment on the case. Members who were interested in obtaining a copy could approach the Secretariat.

The meeting ended at 5:47 p.m.

Legislative Council Secretariat
15 May 1996

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