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(1)Time of the House Committee meeting

The Chairman said that under existing practice, the House Committee meeting would be held after the Finance Committee meeting which was scheduled at 2:30 p.m. He suggested and members agreed that in the event that there was no Finance Committee meeting, the House Committee meeting should start at 2:30 p.m. Any other committees should schedule their meetings after the House Committee meeting.

(2)Confirmation of the minutes of the last meeting held on 7.6.96

(LegCo Paper No. CB(2) 1553/95-96)

The minutes were confirmed.

(3)Matters arising

Report on Chairman's meeting with the Chief Secretary

(a)Public Bus Services (Amendment) Bill 1996

The Chairman said that pursuant to the discussion of the House Committee at the last meeting, he had spoken to Mr LAU Chin-shek about his decision to have the Second Reading debate of the Bill resumed before the Bills Committee concluded its study. Noting that the case would create an undesirable precedent, Mr LAU had agreed to withdraw the resumption notice. The Bills Committee would therefore continue scrutiny of the Bill.

Dr LAW Cheung-kwok said that he had originally intended to move Committee Stage amendments to the Bill to the effect that LegCo's approval was required if the scale of fare increase exceeded the rate of inflation.

In view of Mr LAU's decision, he would request the Bills Committee to discuss the proposed amendments.

CAS(1)2

(b)Passage of bills

The Chairman said that the Administration had suggested that flexibility should be exercised in relation to Bills Committees reporting back to the House Committee so that the Bills in question could be passed within this session. The Chairman said that, where the situation warranted, it was already the practice for a Bills Committee to make a verbal report to the House Committee, to be followed by a written report.

(c)House of Commons debates on Hong Kong

The Chairman said that according to the latest information from the LegCo London Office, the British Government had yet to allocate time for a debate on Hong Kong. The LegCo London Office would monitor developments and keep members informed.

Miss Emily LAU suggested that the Chairman should write to the British Government urging for a motion debate on Hong Kong to be held before the summer recess, and that a LegCo delegation should be sent if such a debate was held.

Members agreed that a letter as proposed by Miss LAU should be sent. As regards the proposal of sending a LegCo delegation, this should be discussed when more details on the debate were available.

Chairman

(d)Briefing by the Chief Secretary

Members agreed that the Chief Secretary should be asked to brief Members on her recent visit to the United States. The Chairman would raise the matter with the Chief Secretary.

Chairman

(4)Legal Adviser's report on the subsidiary legislation to be tabled in the Legislative Council on 26.6.96 (gazetted on 7.6.96)

(LegCo Paper No. LS 166/95-96)

The Legal Adviser said that item 2 was related to fees payable for the new divorce procedure which had already been approved by resolution by the Council. Members agreed to support the subsidiary legislation.

(5)Position report on Bills Committees and Subcommittees

(LegCo Paper No. CB(2) 1566/95-96)

Members noted the report.

In response to Miss Emily LAU, the Chairman said that any subcommittees set up to study subsidiary legislation which had a statutory time limit would have to commence work immediately. The implication of the workload on the Secretariat would be discussed by The Legislative Council Commission. The Secretariat would consider possible measures, such as hiring temporary staff members, to cope with the increased workload.

Mr LEE Cheuk-yan was concerned about the progress of the Bills Committee on Buildings (Amendment) (No 3) Bill 1996. Dr Samuel WONG responded that the Bills Committee would need one more meeting to complete scrutiny of the Bill. Mr James TO Kun-sun reported that the Bills Committee on Prevention of Bribery (Miscellaneous Provisions) (No 2) Bill 1996 had just concluded its study and would report to the House Committee shortly.

(6)Further report by the Legal Adviser on outstanding bill

Nurses Registration (Amendment) Bill 1996

(LegCo Paper No. LS 169/95-96)

The Legal Adviser advised members that the drafting aspect of the Nurses Registration (Amendment) Bill 1996 was in order. As regards the Dentists Registration (Amendment) Bill 1996 which was introduced into LegCo together with the Nurses Registration (Amendment) Bill 1996, the Hong Kong Dental Association had just submitted a representation on the Bill which was tabled at the meeting (Appendix I).

In response to the Chairman, the Legal Adviser said that although the two Bills were introduced into LegCo together, there should not be any difficulty if members decided to support one Bill and set up a Bills Committee to study the other Bill. It was up to the Administration to decide whether resumption of Second Reading debates on the two Bills should take place together.

Members agreed to support the Nurses Registration (Amendment) Bill 1996. The Chairman suggested and members agreed to set up a Bills Committee on the Dentists Registration (Amendment) Bill 1996. The following members agreed to join : Dr LEONG Che-hung, Mr Michael HO Mun-ka, Miss CHAN Yuen-han and Mr MOK Ying-fan.

(7)Business for the LegCo sitting on 26.6.96

(a)Questions

(LegCo Paper No. CB(3) 898/95-96)

20 questions (six oral and 14 written) had been tentatively scheduled.

Mr Eric LI Ka-cheung said that he had given notice to raise a LegCo Question on "Western Corridor Railway". According to the criteria for allocation of LegCo questions, priority would be given to Members who had been allocated the least slots to date. As he was scheduled to ask the question on 3.7.96, he had sought the agreement of Mr CHENG Yiu-tong, who had secured a slot for 26.6.96, to release the slot in his favour, so that he could advance his oral question to 26.6.96. He would like to seek the House Committee's endorsement of the proposed arrangement.

Mrs Miriam LAU advised members that the Panel on Transport had received a briefing on the Western Corridor Railway project on 13.6.96. A Subcommittee under the Panel was set up to monitor the progress of the project and the first meeting of the Subcommittee was scheduled at 8:30 a.m. on 21.6.96. The Panel had also passed a motion to request KCRC to withhold awarding contracts for technical studies with immediate effect. Under the circumstances, she suggested that Mr LI consider seeking the required information through the Subcommittee, instead of raising an oral question.

The Chairman said that according to the House Rules, questions might be asked out of sequence with the agreement of the House Committee. Apart from the setting up of a Subcommittee as mentioned by Mrs LAU, he also drew members' attention to a related oral question to be asked by Mr Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen on 26.6.96, and a motion debate on "Western Corridor Railway" to be held on 3.7.96. He said that even if the House Committee agreed to the arrangement proposed by Mr LI, it was for the President to rule whether Mr LI's question could be allowed under SO 18(1)(l).

Mr Eric LI said that he had revised his original question in order not to duplicate with the one to be asked by Mr Ambrose LAU. It would be better if both his and Mr LAU's questions could be raised at the sitting on 26.6.96. He had attempted to put similar questions to the Administration at the meeting of the Panel on Transport on 13.6.96 but failed to get a satisfactory reply.

In response to Miss Emily LAU, Assistant Secretary General 3 said that eight Members had registered for oral questions for the sitting on 26.6.96. The six slots were allocated to Members in accordance with the order of registration of the questions, and Mr CHIM Pui-chung and Mr Eric LI were in the seventh and eighth place in the queue respectively. If Mr CHENG Yiu-tong's slot was released in Mr Eric LI's favour, Mr CHIM Pui-chung was the only Member who would be affected. However, Mr CHIM had earlier advised the Secretariat that he had no objection to such an arrangement.

Mr IP Kwok-him suggested that Mr LI might wish to ask supplementary questions to Mr Ambrose LAU's question on the same subject. He added that as Mr CHENG Yiu-tong's question was related to industrial safety and in view of the recent industrial accidents, Members should be given the opportunity to raise questions on the subject.

In response to members, Deputy Secretary General and Assistant Secretary General 3 made the following response :

(i) if Mr CHENG withdrew the notice of his question, and if the President ruled Mr LI's question out of order, there would only be five oral questions at the sitting on 26.6.96 because the deadline for giving notice of questions had expired on 13.6.96;

(ii) if Mr CHENG withdrew the notice of his question before the deadline, he would not be regarded as having asked a question;

(iii) if Mr CHENG wished to convert his question to one seeking a written reply, the question would be processed under the established system; and

(iv) if Mr LI's question was ruled out of order by the President, he would not be regarded as having asked a question.

As Mr CHENG Yiu-tong agreed to release his slot to Mr LI, members raised no objection to the arrangement.

(b)Statement

No statement had been notified.

(c)Motions

(i)Two resolutions under section 7 of the Factories and Industrial Undertakings Ordinance (Cap 59) and one resolution under section 57 (4) of the Sex Discrimination Ordinance (Cap 480) - to be moved by the Secretary for Education and Manpower

(LegCo Paper No. LS 168/95-96)

The Legal Adviser said that the Sex Discrimination Ordinance, enacted on 14.7.95, rendered certain kinds of sex discrimination unlawful. Exceptions were laid down in the Ordinance and would expire in one year's time after the enactment of the Ordinance, unless they were extended by another year by resolution of the Council. The first two resolutions under section 7 of the Factories and Industrial Undertakings Ordinance were non-controversial. They sought to remove the statutory exceptions related respectively to the prohibition of employing women to clean any dangerous part of machinery which was in motion in a workplace and in a construction site. The Legal Adviser added that the resolution under section 57(4) of the Sex Discrimination Ordinance sought to extend the grace period of the Women and Young Persons (Industry) Regulations. As explained in the draft speech of the Secretary for Education and Manpower, the Administration needed more time to review the relevant provisions in the Regulations, including a political consideration relating to the denouncement of one of the clauses of the International Labour Convention.

Miss Margaret NG said that the Administration should provide more information to assist members in considering whether the proposed extension of grace period was necessary. Her view was shared by Miss Christine LOH.

In response to members, the Legal Adviser said that members' concern would best be raised with the Administration through a Subcommittee. Members agreed to set up a Subcommittee. The following members agreed to join : Mr Michael HO Mun-ka, Miss Christine LOH Kung-wai, Miss CHAN Yuen-han and Miss Margaret NG.

(LegCo Paper No. LS 167/95-96)

Members agreed to support the resolutions.

The Chairman said that the House Committee had considered the proposal at its meetings on 15.3.96 and 24.5.96. It was agreed that an oral question could be withdrawn on notice (in writing or orally) given by an absent member to the Clerk before 1:00 p.m. on the day of the relevant sitting. Otherwise, the question should be treated as a written question. He would move the resolution in his capacity as the Chairman of the House Committee. Members agreed to support the resolution.

(iv) Resolution under sections 3, 4 and 6 of the Trading Funds Ordinance (Cap 430) - to be moved by the Secretary for Works

Members noted that the Subcommittee set up to study the resolution would report later at the meeting.

(v)Resolution under section 28 of the Drug Trafficking (Recovery of Proceeds) Ordinance (Cap 405) - to be moved by the Secretary for Security

(LegCo Paper No. LS 170/95-96)

Members noted that the Chinese translation of the report was tabled at the meeting (Appendix II). In response to Mr James TO, the Legal Adviser said that the resolution did not introduce any new policy. Members agreed to support the resolution.

(vi) Resolutions under the Sex Discrimination Ordinance (67 of 1995) (Commencement) Notice 1996 and the Disability Discrimination Ordinance (86 of 1995) (Commencement) Notice 1996 - to be moved by Mr LEE Cheuk-yan

Mr LEE Cheuk-yan referred members to his letter tabled at the meeting (Appendix III). He said that the scrutiny period of the subsidiary legislation concerning the commencement date of certain sections of the Sex Discrimination Ordinance and the Disability Discrimination Ordinance had been extended from 5.6.96 to 26.6.96. He would move a motion on 26.6.96 to amend the subsidiary legislation to the effect that all sections under the two Ordinances would come into operation on 29.7.96.

Members noted that the item was not included in the agenda of the House Committee meeting because Mr LEE had yet to give formal notice of amendments to the subsidiary legislation, the deadline of which was 18.6.96.

Mr James TO said that members had previously agreed that all major legislative proposals should first be discussed by Panels, before they were introduced into LegCo. The agreed system should also apply to the scrutiny of subsidiary legislation. He was concerned that the relevant Panels had not been consulted on some of the motions scheduled for the sitting on 26.6.96. The Legal Adviser said that it would be difficult to apply the agreed system to the study of subsidiary legislation which had statutory time limits. Miss Emily LAU said that while she agreed with the merit of the agreed system, she was concerned that Panels might be overloaded with work. In any event, Members could form a Subcommittee to study the subsidiary legislation if considered necessary.

Mr LEE Cheuk-yan said that although the Panel on Home Affairs had not been formally consulted, the effect of his resolution was the same as that provided in the Member's Bill initiated by Miss Emily LAU and Miss Christine LOH which had been discussed by the Panel.

(d)Bills - 1st and 2nd Readings

(i)Supplementary Appropriation (1995-96) Bill 1996

(iv) Social Workers Registration Bill

(v)Child Care Centres (Amendment) Bill 1996

(vi) Administration of Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 1996

(vii) Equal Opportunities (Family Responsibility, Sexuality and Age) Bill

(Member's Bill to be introduced by Mr LAU Chin-shek)

The Chairman informed members that items (i) - (vi) above would be introduced into LegCo on 26.6.96 and considered by the House Committee on 28.6.96. On item (vii), he said that Mr LAU Chin-shek had advised that the Bill would be introduced into LegCo on 3.7.96, instead of 26.6.96.

(e)Bills - resumption of debate on 2nd Reading, Committee Stage and 3rd Reading

(i)Costs in Criminal Cases Bill

(iv) Mental Health (Amendment) Bill 1996

(v)Import and Export (Amendment) Bill 1996

(vi) Control of Chemicals (Amendment) Bill 1996

(vii) Reserved Commodities (Amendment) Bill 1996

(viii) Trade Descriptions (Amendment) Bill 1996

(ix) Toys and Children's Products Safety (Amendment) Bill 1996

(x)Consumer Goods Safety (Amendment) Bill 1996

(xi) Public Bus Services (Amendment) Bill 1996

(Member's Bill introduced by Mr LAU Chin-shek)

Members noted that they had supported items (i) - (x) at the last meeting on 7.6.96, and that Mr LAU Chin-shek had withdrawn his notice to resume Second Reading debate on item (xi) above.

(f)Motion debate on "Review of Employees Retraining Scheme" - to be moved by Mr TSANG Kin-shing

Mr TSANG Kin-shing explained that in view of the recent accidents, he would like to seek the House Committee's agreement for him to change the subject of his motion to one relating to industrial safety.

Members noted that the deadline for giving notice of the motion had expired on 7.6.96, and that for giving notice of amendments to the motion was 18.6.96. Subject to the House Committee's agreement, the President's permission to dispense with the notice of Mr TSANG's revised motion and the notice of amendments to the motion would have to be sought under the Standing Orders.

Members agreed to support Mr TSANG's proposal. A recommendation would be made to the President.

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Mr TSANG said that he would discuss with Members of different groupings before drawing up the wording of his motion. The Chairman asked Mr TSANG to finalize the wording of his motion as soon as possible so that adequate notice could be provided to the Administration.

(g)Motion debate on "Implementation of ‘one country two systems'"- to be moved by Mr Martin LEE

Members noted the wording of Mr LEE's motion.

The Chairman advised members that the deadline for giving notice of amendments, if any, to the above motions was 18.6.96.

(8)Advance information on motion debates for the LegCo sitting on 3.7.96

(a)Motion debate on "Western Corridor Railway"

(b)Motion debate on "Amendments to the Basic Law"

The Chairman reminded members that the deadlines for giving notice of, and amendments to, the above motions were 14.6.96 and 26.6.96 respectively.

(9)Reports by Panels/Bills Committees/Subcommittees

(a)Report by the Bills Committee on the Public Bus Services (Amendment) Bill 1996

(LegCo Paper No. CB(1) 1610/95-96)

The Chairman said that since Mr LAU Chin-shek had withdrawn his notice of resumption of Second Reading debate on the Bill on 26.6.96, the Bills Committee would continue its study on the Bill.

(b)Further report by the Subcommittee on Waterworks (Amendment) Regulation 1996, Country Parks and Special Areas (Amendment) Regulation 1996 and Pesticides (Amendment) Regulation 1996

(LegCo Paper No. CB(1) 1568/95-96)

On behalf of Mr Fred LI Wah-ming, chairman of the Subcommittee who was not at the meeting, the Chairman reported the deliberations of the Subcommittee as contained in the report. Members noted that Mr Fred LI would move a motion to amend the Waterworks (Amendment) Regulation 1996.

(c)Report by the Subcommittee on resolution under sections 3, 4 and 6 of the Trading Funds Ordinance (Cap 430) - Electrical and Mechanical Services Trading Fund

(LegCo Paper No. CB(1) 1612/95-96)

The Chinese version of the report was tabled at the meeting (Appendix IV). The Chairman reported on behalf of Dr Samuel WONG, the chairman of the Subcommittee who was then not at the meeting, that the Subcommittee had decided not to support the resolution.

(d)Report by the Subcommittee on Sewage Service (Sewage Charge) (Amendment) Regulation 1996 and Sewage Service (Trade Effluent Surcharge) (Amendment) Regulation 1996

Dr John TSE Wing-ling, chairman of the Subcommittee, reported that the Subcommittee had held one meeting on 11.6.96, and that the next meeting would be held on 19.6.96. He would move a motion at the sitting on 26.6.96 to extend the scrutiny period of the Regulations to 3.7.96. Members noted that the deadline for giving notice of amendments, if any, to the Regulations was 26.6.96.

(e)Report by the Subcommittee on Waste Disposal (Charges for Disposal of Chemical Waste) (Amendment) Regulation 1996

Miss Christine LOH reported on behalf of Mr James TIEN, chairman of the Subcommittee who was then not at the meeting, that the affected trades and industries were concerned about the 35% proposed increase on charges on disposal of chemical waste. The Hong Kong General Chamber of Commerce had counter - proposed an increase of only 20%. The Subcommittee had requested the Administration to provide information on the implications of the proposal made by the Hong Kong General Chamber of Commerce on public expenditure for this year and the next ten years. The information would be circulated to all Members for reference upon receipt. While the majority of the Subcommittee members supported the Regulation, Mr James TIEN would move a motion in his personal capacity to reduce the rate of increase from the proposed 35% to 20%.

The Chairman advised members that the deadline for giving notice of amendments, if any, to the Regulation was 18.6.96.

(f)Report by the LegCo Panels on Security, Administration of Justice and Legal Services and Constitutional Affairs - Cross Border Co-operation in Judicial and Legal Matters

(LegCo Paper No. CB(2) 1558/95-96)

Mr James TO, chairman of the joint meeting of the Panels on Security, Administration of Justice and Legal Services and Constitutional Affairs held on 4.6.96, said that members of the Panels were concerned about the lack of progress for the establishment of a legal framework for legal and procedural co-operation between Hong Kong and China in respect of criminal, civil and commercial matters.

Miss Emily LAU supplemented that since the issue could not be resolved at the Joint Liaison Group, it should be referred to the two Governments for solutions through consultation, as provided for in Annex II of the Joint Declaration. She suggested that the Governor's assistance be sought to further pursue the matter with the two Governments. Members agreed.

Chairman

(10) Any Other Business

The Legislative Council Commission

Miss Christine LOH briefed members on the developments leading to her two letters dated 26.1.96 and 13.5.96 to the Chairman. The Chairman advised members of the actions taken pursuant to these two letters. These were summarized below :

Mid October 1995

The Legal Subgroup of the Preliminary Working Committee (PWC) announced its proposal (i.e. to reinstate certain laws which had been amended or repealed in the light of the Bill of Rights Ordinance, and to repeal the New Territories Land (Exemption) Ordinance and The Legislative Council Commission Ordinance).

15.11.95

A motion debate which raised objection to the PWC's proposal was carried by the Council.

5.1.96

Miss LOH wrote to the Chairman requesting that the House Committee should discuss PWC's proposal to repeal The Legislative Council Commission Ordinance.

15.1.96

The Panels on Constitutional Affairs and Home Affairs agreed to hold special meetings to solicit views of non-government organizations on major transitional issues and to forward these views to the Preparatory Committee (PC). The special meetings were held on 7.3.96 and 9.3.96.

26.1.96

The Chairman advised the House Committee that The Legislative Council Commission (the Commission) had discussed the PWC's proposal on 23.1.96 and had decided that the President, as Chairman of the Commission, should write to the Chinese Government to explain the background for the setting up of the Commission and to convey staff's concern about future employment in the Secretariat.

13.5.96

The President, in response to a question raised by Miss LOH at the Commonwealth Parliamentary Seminar, advised that a letter had been sent to the Chinese Government, to which a response had yet to be received and that a decision had been taken not to circulate the letter to Members.

13.5.96

Miss LOH wrote to the Chairman requesting that the letter sent by the Chairman of the Commission be tabled at a House Committee meeting.

After

13.5.96

The Chairman discussed the matter with the President and Miss LOH. The President was of the view that the letter should not be made public. In response to Miss LOH, the item had been included in the agenda of this meeting .

The Chairman advised members that any decision made by the House Committee was not binding on the President. As the House Committee was not an appropriate forum to discuss Miss LOH's proposal, he suggested that the matter be referred to the Commission for consideration.

Miss LOH said that she had received a letter dated 13.6.96 from the Chairman of the Legislative Council Secretariat Staff Consultative Committee. The letter stated, inter alia, that "... As the Chairman (of the Commission) has openly stated, the letter was written in response to staff's concern about the recommendation of the Legal Subgroup of the former Preliminary Working Committee to repeal The Legislative Council Commission Ordinance after the change of sovereignty. The letter aims to explain to the Chinese Government the background of the setting up of the Commission and convey staff's worries about future employment in the Secretariat. We do not believe that making public the letter will serve any constructive purpose .... What is at stake is not the principle of openness but our continued employment ...". Miss LOH said that other than staff's continued employment, she was also concerned about the independence of the LegCo Secretariat.

The Secretary General explained that the purpose of the letter was to reflect staff's view on the matter. He reiterated that staff members were worried that pursuing the matter in a high profile manner might jeopardize their prospect of continued employment .

Miss Margaret NG said that as the Commission had taken up the matter on behalf of Members, she could not see any reason why the letter should not be circulated to Members.

Dr YEUNG Sum said that while he was concerned about the independence of the LegCo Secretariat, he also respected staff's views on Miss LOH's request. He had no doubt that the Chairman's letter would have accurately reflected Members' concern and suggested that the matter be referred to the Commission for further consideration.

Mr Eric LI said that the Commission and the House Committee were two different forums. Since members had previously agreed that the Commission should take up the matter, it should be for the Commission to consider Miss LOH's request. He also felt that members should appreciate staff's difficult position, and that it would not be appropriate to discuss the matter in an open meeting.

Mr James TO concurred with the view of Dr YEUNG and Mr LI. He added that members of the Commission should have access to the letter in question.

Miss LOH said that she also believed that the Chairman had accurately reflected Members' views. What she found difficult to understand was why the letter could not be made public. She hoped that similar cases in future should be better handled to avoid misunderstanding.

The Chairman suggested and members agreed that Miss LOH's request be referred to the Commission for consideration.

Chairman