LegCo Paper No. CB(2) 1745/96-97
(The minutes have been seen by the Administration)
Ref : CB2/PL/SE+PLW
CB2/PL/SE/1
CB2/PL/PLW/1

LegCo Panel on Security and
LegCo Panel on Planning, Lands and Works

Minutes of Joint Meeting
held on Monday, 16 December 1996 at 10:45 am
in the Chamber of the Legislative Council Building

Members present : LegCo Panel on Security

    * Hon James TO Kun-sun (Chairman)
    Hon Mrs Selina CHOW, OBE, JP (Deputy Chairman)
    Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong
    Hon Howard YOUNG, JP
    Hon Zachary WONG Wai-yin
    Hon Andrew CHENG Kar-foo
    Hon Albert HO Chun-yan
    * Hon IP Kwok-him
    * Hon TSANG Kin-shing

LegCo Panel on Planning, Lands and Works

    Hon Edward S T HO, OBE, JP (Chairman)
    Hon Albert CHAN Wai-yip (Deputy Chairman)
    Hon Ronald ARCULLI, OBE, JP
    Hon Samuel WONG Ping-wai, OBE, FEng, JP
    Hon NGAN Kam-chuen
    Hon SIN Chung-kai

(*also a Member of LegCo Panel on Planning, Lands and Works)

Members absent : LegCo Panel on Security

    Hon Emily LAU Wai-hing
    Hon Fred LI Wah-ming
    Dr Hon Philip WONG Yu-hong
    Hon CHEUNG Hon-chung
    Dr Hon LAW Cheung-kwok
    Hon LO Suk-ching
    Hon Bruce LIU Sing-lee
    Hon Margaret NG
    Hon Lawrence YUM Sin-ling

LegCo Panel on Planning, Lands and Works

    Hon LAU Wong-fat, OBE, JP
    Hon CHOY Kan-pui, JP
    Dr Hon John TSE Wing-ling

Members attending :

    Hon CHAN Wing-chan
    Hon LEE Kai-ming

Public Officers attending :

Mr Alex FONG
Deputy Secretary for Security
Mrs Sarah KWOK
Principal Assistant Secretary for Security
Mr Peter CHEUNG
Director of Fire Services
Fire Services Department
Mr TSANG Kwong-yu
Deputy Director of Fire Services
Fire Services Department
Dr CHOI Yu-leuk
Director of Buildings
Buildings Department
Mr CHEUNG Hau-wai
Assistant Director/Legal & Management
Buildings Department
Mr K W HO
Assistant Director/Gas and General Legislation
Electrical and Mechanical Services Department
Mr MAK Sai-yiu
Assistant Commissioner for Labour
Labour Department
Mr YUEN Ying-lam
Assistant Commissioner of Police (Acting)
Regional Commander, Kowloon West
Mr William David Coalter
Superintendent of Police (Acting)
Superintendent, Special Investigation Team
Kowloon West
Mr B J IRELAND, JP
District Officer, Yau Tsim Mong

Clerk in attendance :

Mrs Sharon TONG
Chief Assistant Secretary (2) 1

Staff in attendance :

Miss Odelia LEUNG
Chief Assistant Secretary (1) 1
Mrs Mary TANG
Senior Assistant Secretary (1) 2
Mr Paul WOO
Senior Assistant Secretary (2) 5

I. Election of Chairman

Action

Mr James TO Kun-sun was elected Chairman for the meeting.

II. Report on the Garley Building fire tragedy

(LegCo Paper No. CB(2) 725/96-97(01))

(The two Investigation Reports on the Garley Building fire)

(Appendices II, III and IV of Fire Investigation Report on (1) Cause of Fire and (2) Fire Spread - a few copies were tabled at the meeting)

(Annexes II, III, IV and VI of Investigation Report on Circumstances Leading to Multiple Casualties - a few copies were tabled at the meeting)

2. Deputy Secretary for Security (DS(S)) informed members that the investigation teams of the Fire Services Department (FSD) had completed two investigation reports within two weeks after the out-break of the Garley Building fire on 20 November 1996. The two reports were :

  1. Fire Investigation Report on (1) Cause of Fire and (2) Fire Spread; and
  2. Investigation Report on Circumstances Leading to Multiple Casualties

DS(S) said that the two reports had been released on 13 December 1996. On the same day, the family members of the victims, the persons injured as well as the tenants and landlords of the building were briefed on the contents of the reports. FSD was the first department to complete a preliminary investigation into the tragedy fire. Other departments, such as the Police, the Buildings Department (BD), the Labour Department (LD) and the Electrical and Mechanical Services Department (EMSD), were taking the necessary follow-up action within their respective ambit of responsibilities.

3. DS(S) further advised that a recommendation would be made to the Executive Council (ExCo) for the appointment of an independent Commission of Inquiry pursuant to the Commissions of Inquiry Ordinance (Cap. 86) to conduct an in-depth inquiry into the incident. The terms of reference and the membership of the Commission would be announced later after the necessary approval had been given by ExCo.

4. Director of Fire Services (DFS) proceeded to brief members on the major findings of the investigation reports and the recommendations made therein.

5. Mr Edward S T HO enquired if the alterations effected at some of the lower floors of the building had been approved, and whether these modifications had contributed to the rapid spread of the fire. He also asked if BD would be strengthening enforcement action to detect unauthorized modifications in old commercial buildings. Director of Buildings (DB) replied that BD was carrying out investigations in two areas, one concerning the degree of damage to the building and the other the circumstances related to the rapid spread of the fire. Preliminary findings confirmed that there had been unauthorized alterations within the building and accordingly the department was contemplating action against a total of 18 landlords who were found involved in the irregularities. The fact that some of the smoke doors had been wedged open prior to the fire might also have escalated the spread of the fire. On the legislative side, BD and EMSD would be reviewing the relevant legislation, in particular those related to lift maintenance, to see if any legislative amendments would be required. DB advised that the investigation by BD would be completed by the end of the month and prompt action would be taken on any recommendation drawn from the investigation.

6. Referring to Appendix IV(b) of the Fire Investigation Report, Dr Samuel WONG Ping-wai raised the following queries :

  1. which of the three lifts on the 13th floor of the building was the fireman’s lift?
  2. were the lifts compartmentalized and how many of the lift doors had been boarded up by hoarding enclosures?
  3. whether the smoke doors which had been found missing were burnt away by the fire or actually removed prior to the fire?
  4. the reasons for the absence of sprinkler systems if the structural plans for the Garley Building were approved after 1973.

7. Assistant Director/Electrical and Mechanical Services Department (AD/EMSD) and DFS replied that all the three lifts were compartmentalized. All the lift doors had been removed and enclosed by wooden hoardings in the course of carrying out maintenance work. DFS undertook to provide a written reply on the other queries.

FSD

8. Mrs Selina CHOW enquired if the seemingly long time (one hour 58 minutes) taken to raise from Number 4 alarm to Number 5 might have affected the rescue operation. DFS explained that the officer-in-charge had authority to deploy additional resources at any time during a fire rescue operation. As far as this incident was concerned, after the fire broke out and when the alarm was raised to Number 4 in 18 minutes, increasing manpower and fire-fighting resources were called in. In one hour 50 minutes, resources employed were already at Alarm 5 level. DFS said that at that point in time, the supply of additional resources was in fact limited. The subsequent raising to Number 5 alarm therefore merely reflected the intensity of the fire in the circumstances. It did not, however, change the mode of rescue operation in any significant way. A comparison of Number 4 and Number 5 alarm in terms of supply of fire-fighting equipments was as follows :


Number 4 Alarm

Number 5 Alarm




Fire engine with platform

2

3

Pumping vehicle

4

5

Aerial ladders

3

3

Light rescue vehicle

3

3

Breathing apparatus unit

1

1

Mobile engineering unit

1

1

Mobile control unit

1

1

Lighting unit

1

1

Water vehicle

1

1

Hose vehicle

2

2

9. In reply to a further question by Mrs Selina CHOW, DFS said that the Government Flying Service (GFS) was called in when the fire was at Alarm 3 level when some occupants of the building had fled to the rooftop and rescue officers had difficulty to reach to the top via the staircases because of the dense smoke and fumes there. GFS had successfully rescued four persons. DFS said that from a professional’s point of view, the decision to summon GFS was a correct one. Because of the need to respond to public concern about the effectiveness of helicopter rescue in a fire situation with high-rise buildings around, a separate study would be conducted.

10. Mrs Selina CHOW enquired if the evaluative part of the Annex VII of the Investigation Report, which had been withheld by the Administration, could be provided for members’ information. DS(S) replied that since investigations were still going on and some of the Annexures contained information such as witnesses’ statements which were relevant to the Coroner’s inquest and the Commission of Inquiry, the Attorney General had advised that they should not be released at the present stage. The Chairman and Mrs CHOW opined that the relevant information could be extracted and provided to members under confidential cover. DS(S) agreed to consider the suggestion.

Adm

11. In response to Mr Howard YOUNG’s question, AD/EMSD said that there was no strict requirement on the material for scaffoldings for lifts and escalators maintenance. Bamboo was the most common material used. Assistant Commissioner for Labour (ACL) said that the Factories and Industrial Undertakings Ordinance did not forbid the use of bamboo scaffolding in lift shafts. LD had prepared a draft code of practices concerning the maintenance and safe operation of lifts and escalators which had been circulated to employers’ associations and relevant organizations in October for consultation. A new section on the use of scaffolding materials would be added to the draft code. ACL agreed to provide a copy for members’ information.

LD

12. Mr CHEUNG Man-kwong said that a survey conducted by FSD had indicated that some 500 old commercial buildings were without automatic sprinkler systems. According to another report, there were at least 36 commercial buildings in the Yau Tsim Mong District which were in a worse-off state than the Garley Building. He asked if the Administration had plans to step up enforcement actions such as routine inspections to minimise potential fire risks in these buildings. DS(S) advised that, on the legislative front, the Legislative Council (LegCo) was at the final stage of scrutinising the Fire Safety (Commercial Premises) Bill which, however, did not include commercial premises with offices attached. This type of buildings would therefore have to be looked at separately. In addition, the Occupational Safety and Health Bill had been introduced to LegCo on 4 October 1996 which proposed to empower the Commissioner for Labour to enforce certain standards related to fire prevention in the workplace. Pursuant to the impending passage of these new legislation, the Administration was now undertaking an inspection campaign covering 40 selected commercial cum office premises built before 1973. This exercise would be completed by January 1997. DS(S) said that as investigations by the various departments on the fire were still in progress, a further period of three months would be required to complete an overall review and for the Administration to come up with specific recommendations. A working group had been set up within the Administration to co-ordinate efforts and monitor progress. Matters related to automatic sprinkler systems and routine inspections would certainly be examined in detail.

13. DFS remarked that most buildings in Hong Kong were safe. The law required that all buildings met the prescribed safety standards when the buildings were completed. Frequently, problems arose because of reasons such as illegal structural alterations of the buildings and poor building management etc. In addition, the fact that many buildings were completed a long time ago meant that improvement measures, such as upgrading of the fire service installations, had to be undertaken. On the part of FSD, the department carried out on a regular basis publicity campaigns and training courses on fire safety issues. Advisory notices were also distributed to organizations like owners’ corporations and public utilities highlighting on safety matters. The department also adopted a pro-active approach to deal with complaints. Any complaint received through the department’s complaint hot-line would be acted upon within 24 hours. After the Garley Building disaster, FSD had stepped up inspections of commercial buildings on a district wide basis, with particular attention given to the 500 odd old commercial buildings aforementioned. Immediate action, including prosecution, would be taken upon detection of offences.

14. Members suggested that the use of automatic fire alarm systems connected to fire stations would help ensure that a report of fire could reach the stations at the earliest possible time. DFS said that suitable alarm devices were available from the local market at reasonable costs. He undertook to provide more information about the systems after the meeting. Mr Edward S T HO added that as staircases were an important means of escape, an alarm system to detect smoke doors being wedged open thus posing serious fire hazards should also be installed in buildings.

FSD

15. ACL informed members that last year LD and FSD had conducted joint visits to all the industrial buildings completed before 1973 to inspect fire services installations in these buildings. The departments would continue with such joint inspections on a regular basis. As regards the Occupational Safety and Health Bill, ACL said that the proposed legislation provided the Commissioner for Labour an authority to require employers and occupants to undertake fire safety measures where necessary to protect people in the workplace. These people included workers working in communal areas of a building such as watchmen, cleaners and delivery workers etc.

16. The Chairman and Mr Albert CHAN Wai-yip asked for the names of the 500 old commercial premises identified for inspection. DS(S) undertook to consider the request and revert to the Panels.

Adm

17. In response to members’ queries concerning the rescue operation during the fire, DFS confirmed that there were two aerial ladders operating at the scene facing Nathan Road, the second aerial ladder being available only minutes after the first one had arrived. Two other aerial ladders were also working at Pilkem Street at the same time. He added that the peculiar circumstances surrounding the fire had rendered it impossible to use rescue cushions as a means of rescue. DFS said that aerial ladders were not the only means to combat fire in multi-storey buildings. Fire-fighting for modern high-rise buildings was incorporated partly in the design of the buildings, for instance in the construction of a refuge floor and staircases and smoke lobby which could keep out smoke and fumes. Referring to the notices issued by the maintenance contractor of the Garley Building which advised occupants not to be over-sensitive to fire alarms in the course of renovation work and which therefore reduced their alertness to the danger of fire, DS(S) said that owners’ corporations and building managements had been warned of the possible consequences of such practice. The Chairman remarked that the Administration should take this opportunity to strengthen publicity and education to impress upon the public on fire safety. DS(S) replied that the working group would take up matters in its deliberations.

Adm

18. Mr CHAN Wai-yip opined that there had been insufficient details provided in the two investigation reports regarding the mode of rescue operation and deployment of resources. He enquired if Annex VIII which documented the sequence of fire fighting procedures could be provided for members’ reference. DS(S) said that the work of the two FSD investigation teams had been a time constrained one in that the investigations had to be completed within two weeks. In addition, the terms of reference of the two teams did not include an overall review of operational matters relating to the rescue, which would fall within the purview of the future Commission of Inquiry. Principal Assistant Secretary for Security said that since Annex VIII also contained confidential information which could not be published at the moment, the Administration would need to consult the Attorney General again on whether such information could be released to members. The Chairman pointed out that in previous inquiries, confidential information had been provided to LegCo Members. He hoped that similar arrangements could be made this time.

Adm

19. In reply to a further question by Mr Albert CHAN Wai-yip, DS(S) said that the terms of reference of the Commission of Inquiry had yet to be finalized. He assured that the terms of reference would be comprehensive enough to cover all the relevant areas. Mr CHAN suggested that the Commission’s terms of reference should include a review and evaluation of the performance of government departments involved in the rescue. DS(S) agreed to relay the suggestion for ExCo’s consideration.

Adm

20. Members enquired of the follow-up action that had been taken after the fire tragedy, in particular the measures to minimise fire risks inherent in major maintenance and renovation work carried out in multi-storey buildings. D of B replied that, depending on the nature and scale of the work, prior approval from BD might need to be obtained before the work was to commence. A lot of minor works, however, were exempted from seeking approval. He said that BD had maintained comprehensive safety standards and procedures for the parties to follow. The department would also draw up new codes of practices and improve on the effectiveness of the enforcement and monitoring mechanism. D of B added that, pending the completion of BD’s own investigation into the fire and the survey inspection of the 40 commercial buildings, appropriate measures would be put in place. DS(S) supplemented that all the relevant departments including the working group were actively taking follow-up action. A wide variety of issues involving, for example, legislative proposals and the strengthening of enforcement and publicity activities would be examined. He said that the Administration would be able to update members in three months’ time after the working group had completed its progress report.

21. District Officer (Yau Tsim Mong) informed members that the Garley Building fire had caused a great deal of concern to all sectors in the Yau Tsim Mong District, which was an old district characterised by its high density of private housing. After the fire incident, a working group under the Yau Tsim Mong District Board had been formed to look into problems related to the maintenance of buildings and in particular fire risks in old buildings. This working group would be meeting representatives from the government departments to work out plans to address the issues. Members expressed that the District Boards, through their liaison channels with organizations like the district Mutual Aid Committees and owners’ corporations etc., should step up publicity efforts so that information on fire safety could be disseminated to the community at large. The Administration noted the view.

22. As regards publicity on safety at work, ACL advised that the Information Services Department (ISD) had allocated $1.3 million from its publicity vote for 1997-98 for the general promotion of occupational safety and health. Part of the funds would be used for publicising the Occupational Safety and Health Bill upon its enactment. DFS added that FSD would be happy to conduct briefings on fire safety matters to members of the public upon request. DS(S) pointed out that education and publicity were an important aspect of work which would be pursued by the Administration. He remarked that the prevention of fire hazards involved the concerted efforts by all parties. He called for initiatives to tackle the problem from all sources.

23. Mr CHENG Kar-foo enquired of the possibility of prohibiting welding operations to be carried out during normal office hours inside commercial premises where major renovation work was undertaken. The Administration would consider the suggestion.

Adm

24. Responding to the question of safety whilst carrying out welding processes in lift shafts, ACL advised that LD had promulgated written guidelines in this area. He undertook to provide them for members’ reference.

LD

25. Mr CHAN Wing-chan said that FSD should step up publicity on the proper use of fire extinguishers. The Chairman suggested that Radio Television Hong Kong might be asked to produce a special programme on the subject.

Adm

26. In reply to Mr CHAN Wing-chan’s enquiry on the progress of claims for employees’ compensation arising from the fire incident, ACL said that the Labour Advisory Board would discuss at its meeting on 20 December 1996 on how the processing of claims could be expedited. He further stated that of the 39 deceased persons, 29 were employees and ex-gratia payments had been made by the employers. More than 20 family members of the deceased had already sought legal aid from the Legal Aid Department in pursuing their claims.

27. The Chairman requested that any progress in respect of the review and investigation of the fire accident be reported to the LegCo in due course.

Adm

III. Close of meeting

28. The meeting closed at 1:05 pm.

LegCo Secretariat
2 April 1997

Last Updated on 21 August 1998