OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Saturday, 3 May 1997
The Council met at half-past Nine o'clock
MEMBERS PRESENT:
THE PRESIDENT
THE HONOURABLE MRS RITA FAN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE WONG SIU-YEE
THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE HO SAI-CHU, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE RAYMOND HO CHUNG-TAI, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE NG LEUNG-SING
PROF THE HONOURABLE NG CHING-FAI
THE HONOURABLE ERIC LI KA-CHEUNG, J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE LEE KAI-MING
THE HONOURABLE ALLEN LEE, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS ELSIE TU
THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS PEGGY LAM, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE HENRY WU
THE HONOURABLE NGAI SHIU-KIT, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE HENRY TANG YING-YEN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE RONALD ARCULLI, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE YUEN MO
THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG HON-CHUNG
DR THE HONOURABLE MRS TSO WONG MAN-YIN
THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHUN-YING, J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE LEONG CHE-HUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS SOPHIE LEUNG LAU YAU-FUN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MOK YING-FAN
THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHOI-HI
THE HONOURABLE CHAN YUEN-HAN
THE HONOURABLE CHAN WING-CHAN
THE HONOURABLE CHAN KAM-LAM
THE HONOURABLE TSANG YOK-SING
THE HONOURABLE CHENG KAI-NAM
THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE
THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT, J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG
THE HONOURABLE KENNEDY WONG YING-HO
THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG, J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE CHARLES YEUNG CHUN-KAM
THE HONOURABLE YEUNG YIU-CHUNG
THE HONOURABLE IP KWOK-HIM
THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG
THE HONOURABLE BRUCE LIU SING-LEE
THE HONOURABLE LAU KONG-WAH
THE HONOURABLE MRS MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHOY KAN-PUI, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHENG YIU-TONG
DR THE HONOURABLE TANG SIU-TONG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY FOK TSUN-TING
THE HONOURABLE KAN FOOK-YEE
THE HONOURABLE NGAN KAM-CHUEN
THE HONOURABLE LO SUK-CHING
DR THE HONOURABLE LAW CHEUNG-KWOK
THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG, J.P.
MEMBERS ABSENT:
THE HONOURABLE DAVID CHU YU-LIN
THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK
THE HONOURABLE HUI YIN-FAT, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE AMBROSE LAU HON-CHUEN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE PAUL CHENG MING-FUN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARIA TAM
CLERK IN ATTENDANCE:
MS PAULINE NG MAN-WAH
CLERK TO THE PROVISIONAL LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
BILLS
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Good Morning, Honourable Members. The first item on our Agenda is Bills. First Reading of Bills.
First Reading of Bills
NATIONAL FLAG AND NATIONAL EMBLEM BILL
REGIONAL FLAG AND REGIONAL EMBLEM BILL
CLERK (in Cantonese):
NATIONAL FLAG AND NATIONAL EMBLEM BILL
REGIONAL FLAG AND REGIONAL EMBLEM BILL
Bills read the First time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Rule 53(3) of the Rules of Procedure.
Second Reading of Bills
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Second Reading of Bills.
NATIONAL FLAG AND NATIONAL EMBLEM BILL
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): The Director of the Chief Executive's Office.
DIRECTOR OF THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE'S OFFICE (in Cantonese): Madam President, I move that the National Flag and National Emblem Bill be read a Second time. The Bill provides for the use and protection of the National Flag and the National Emblem in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (SAR) and the related matters.
Annex III of the Basic Law sets out the national laws that must be applied in the SAR through promulgation or local legislation. Two of such resolutions and orders which are relevant to the national flag and the national emblem will be promulgated and brought into operation by the Chief Executive on 1 July, in accordance with the provisions in Article 48 of the Basic Law.
Since the promulgation of the Basic Law, the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress endorsed the Law of the People's Republic of China on the National Flag and the Law of the People's Republic of China on the National Emblem in 1990 and 1991 respectively. These two laws are not included in Annex III of the Basic Law, but certain of their provisions are relevant to the SAR and must be applied with effect from 1 July. We therefore see the need to implement them by way of local legislation.
The national flag and the national emblem symbolize the resumption of China's exercise of sovereignty over Hong Kong. The Bill provides that main government buildings must display the national flag, the national emblem or both. It also empowers the Chief Executive to stipulate and publish in the Gazette the organizations and places within the SAR which must display the national flag and the national emblem. These stipulations are administrative in nature and will not constitute subsidiary legislation.
The national flag and the national emblem, being symbols of sovereignty, should thus be respected and cherished. The Bill prohibits the use of damaged, defiled, faded or substandard national flag and national emblem. The specifications of the national flag and the national emblem are set out in Schedules 1 and 2 respectively. National flags and national emblems may be manufactured only by designated enterprises in accordance with the specifications. These provisions are in line with their national counterparts.
To safeguard the dignity of the national flag and the national emblem, the Bill also prohibits the use of the national flag and the national emblem in trademarks, advertisements or private funeral functions. In addition, the national emblem may not be used as furnishings or ornaments in everyday life or in private celebration or condolence functions. The Chief Executive may also stipulate places at which or occasions on which the national flag and national emblem may not be used or displayed. The Bill also sets out the maximum penalty for intentionally desecrating the national flag and national emblem and for their unlawful use. Any unlawful use of the national flag and national emblem in trademarks and advertisements is liable to a maximum fine of $50,000 and $5,000 for other unlawful uses. Moreover any wilful desecration of the national flag or national emblem, such as burning, mutilating or trampling on it, is liable on conviction to a maximum fine of $50,000 and imprisonment for three years.
Schedule 3 sets out certain conditions regarding the raising and lowering of the national flag, the priority of the national flag and the flying of the national flag at half staff.
Madam President, I move that the Bill be read the Second time.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the National Flag and National Emblem Bill be read the Second time. In accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debate is now adjourned and the Bill referred to the House Committee. The Director of the Chief Executive's Office.
REGIONAL FLAG AND REGIONAL EMBLEM BILL
DIRECTOR OF THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE'S OFFICE (in Cantonese): Madam President, I move that the Regional Flag and Regional Emblem Bill be read a Second time.
At present, the Colony Armorial Bearings (Protection) Ordinance, Cap. 315, is the only piece of legislation relevant to the protection of the government emblem. There is no law on the Hong Kong flag. However, since the Hong Kong flag carries the Colony Armorial Bearings, the Ordinance indirectly governs the use of the Hong Kong flag. As the Armorial Bearings refer to the armorial ensigns and supporters granted and assigned under the Royal Warrant, the Ordinance cannot continue to be applied after 30 June. In addition, the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress decided in February 1997 that this Ordinance shall not be adopted as Hong Kong Special Administration Region (SAR) legislation.
We consider that there is a need to make legislative provisions for the protection of the flag and emblem of the SAR and for the use and manufacture of the same.
The gist of the Bill is as follows:
(a) to make provisions to safeguard the dignity of the regional flag and regional emblem. The relevant provisions are in clauses 4, 6 and 7 of the Bill. The main purpose is to prohibit the use of damaged or substandard regional flag and regional emblem, the wilful desecration of the regional flag and regional emblem and the use of the regional flag and regional emblem as trademarks or for advertising purposes;
(b) to make provisions to ensure that regional flags and regional emblems manufactured and used meet the specifications endorsed by the Preparatory Committee. The detailed specifications are set out in the Schedules;
(c) to list the issues to note when the national and regional flags and emblems are used at the same time. The relevant provisions are based on the Provisional Arrangements on the Use of the Regional Flag and Regional Emblem of the SAR endorsed by the Preparatory Committee; and
(d) lastly, the Bill also empowers the Chief Executive to stipulate which organizations and places in the SAR must display or use the regional flag and regional emblem.
Madam President, I move that the Bill be read a Second time.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the Regional Flag and Regional Emblem Bill be read the Second time. In accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debate is now adjourned and the Bill referred to the House Committee.
MOTION
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): The Transitional Budget for 1997-98. The Director of the Chief Executive's Office.
TRANSITIONAL BUDGET FOR 1997-98
DIRECTOR OF THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE'S OFFICE (in Cantonese): Madam President, I move the motion requesting that this Council supports the Transitional Budget for 1997-98.
Compilation process
Since the financial year of 1997-98 straddles the transfer of government, the Sino-British Joint Liaison Group set up an expert group in 1995 to handle the compilation of the 1997-98 Budget and the related matters. Both sides agreed that the transitional budget must cover the whole financial year in order to ensure continued operation of the existing financial systems and public services, thus safeguarding the effective operation of the SAR Government.
With a co-operative and pragmatic attitude, the two sides reached a consensus on both the expenditure and revenue aspects of the Budget after more than 10 rounds of discussions. This transitional Budget fully accords with the established principles of financial prudence and the relevant provisions in the Basic Law. It is a budget which is financially sound and prudent and takes into account the interests of all quarters. It has a positive effect on Hong Kong's future economic and social progress.
Gist of the Budget
The theme of this year's budget is "Continuity in a Time of Change" with a smooth transition as its goal. The Budget also seeks to ensure that on its establishment, the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (SAR) Government has healthy fiscal reserves to meet the needs of medium and long term developments.
The expenditure estimates are in accordance with the provisions in Basic Law Article 107 ─ keeping expenditures within the limits of revenue. The total estimated expenditure for 1997-98 is $203 billion, of which payments from the Capital Investment Fund total $0.8 billion, $154 billion (76%) is for recurrent expenses and $47.8 billion is for capital projects. The five largest areas of recurrent expenses in descending order are education (21.2%), health (14.4%), support (14%), security (13%) and social welfare (11%).
The 1997-98 Budget introduces a number of tax concessions so that the community can enjoy a fiscal dividend. The total estimated revenue is $234.7 billion. The significant increase is mainly due to the additional revenue from the collection of rents in accordance with Article 121 of the Basic Law. In addition, with effect from 1 July, all income received from land transactions will be retained by the SAR Government rather than shared between the Government and the Land Fund.
The estimated surplus is $31.7 billion. The fiscal reserves available to the SAR Government on 1 April 1998 will total $359 billion (including the balance of the Land Fund). Such reserves are of paramount importance to the stability of our monetary systems during the transition. They also lay a sound financial basis for "Hong Kong people ruling Hong Kong." How to make good use of these reserves to further create wealth and enhance the well-being of the community will be a great challenge to the SAR Government.
The Chief Executive and the Executive Council of the SAR both support this Budget which is based on the consensus reached between the Chinese and British sides. It is a budget of historic importance. With this statement, I hereby request that this Council supports the 1997-98 Budget.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That this Council supports the Transitional Budget for 1997-98. Does any Member wish to speak? Dr LEONG Che-hung.
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG (in Cantonese): Thank you, Madam President. Madam President, since this motion is related to the financial arrangements during the transitional period of Hong Kong, I believe Honourable colleagues certainly hope to have a chance to conduct a thorough study into the contents of this Budget before expressing their views on this motion. Therefore, I intend to move that the debate on the motion be adjourned in accordance with Rule 40(1) of the Rules of Procedure. Upon the consent of this Council and with your permission, Madam President, I shall further move that the transitional Budget be referred to the Finance Committee for study. Accordingly, Madam President, I move that the debate on this motion be now adjourned. Thank you.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That Dr LEONG Che-hung moved that the debate on the motion be adjourned. We shall now debate the motion. Does any Member wish to speak? Mr Bruce LIU.
MR BRUCE LIU (in Cantonese): Madam President, I would like to add some points. This transitional Budget has already been passed by the Legislative Council in the form of a Bill. In accordance with Article 160 of the Basic Law, upon the establishment of the SAR, if the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress has not declared in accordance with the same Basic Law article that certain piece of legislation is contradictory to the Basic Law, it will become an SAR law. This Budget will therefore become on SAR law for the National People's Congress has not declared it being contradictory to the Basic Law. The Provisional Legislative Council (PLC) is now only making laws which are indispensable when the SAR is established. Therefore, I agree that this transitional Budget should be presented as a motion for discussion by Members who shall examine whether improvements can be made, including allowing room for the SAR Government to make some other arrangements, for instance, increasing expenditure on areas such as social welfare. Therefore, I suggest that we should discuss and study the contents of the Budget in detail instead of introducing the budget as a Bill for passage by the PLC. I find the present arrangement absolutely appropriate. Thank you, Madam President.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak? If not, Dr LEONG Che-hung, do you wish to reply?
(Dr LEONG Che-hung shook his head to indicate that he did not wish to reply.)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you and that is: That the motion moved by Dr LEONG Che-hung that the debate on this motion be adjourned, be approved.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will those in favour please say "aye"?
(Members responded)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please say "no".
(Members responded)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I think the "ayes" have it. I declare that this debate is now adjourned. Dr LEONG Che-hung.
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG (in Cantonese): Thank you, Madam President. Madam President, in accordance with Rule 29(1) of the Rules of Procedures, I seek your leave to exercise your discretion to dispense with the required notification to allow me to move a motion the content of which being that the Transitional Budget for 1997-98 be referred to the Finance Committee for study. Thank you, Madam President.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr LEONG Che-hung, you have my permission to move your motion without notice.
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG (in Cantonese): Thank you, Madam President. I move that the Transitional Budget for 1997-98 be referred to the Finance Committee for study.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the Transitional Budget for 1997-98 be referred to the Finance Committee for study. We shall now proceed to a debate. Does any Member wish to speak? If not, I now put the question to you and that is: That the Transitional Budget for 1997-98 be referred to the Finance Committee for study.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will those in favour please say "aye"?
(Members responded)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please say "no".
(Members responded)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I think the "ayes" have it. I declare that the Transitional Budget for 1997-98 submitted by the Chief Executive's Office be referred to the Finance Committee for study.
MEMBERS' MOTION
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Members' motion. Adoption of the English version of the Rules of Procedure of the Provisional Legislative Council of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region. Mrs Selina CHOW.
ADOPTION OF THE ENGLISH VERSION OF THE RULES OF PROCEDURE OF THE PROVISIONAL LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL OF THE HONG KONG SPECIAL ADMINISTRATIVE REGION
MRS SELINA CHOW (in Cantonese): Madam President, I move the motion standing in my name on the Revised Agenda.
At the meeting of this Council on 12 April, Honourable colleagues supported and adopted my motion on the adoption of the Rules of Procedure of the Provisional Legislative Council (PLC) of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region with amendments made by the Honourable Miss Maria TAM and the Honourable IP Kwok-him. I am grateful to fellow Members.
On that day, I reported to Members, on behalf of the Working Group on the Rules of Procedure, that the Working Group would finish drafting the English version of the Rules of Procedure shortly and would soon present the draft for scrutiny, debate and endorsement by this Council.
I am now presenting the English version of the Rules of Procedure, and I hope Honourable colleagues can support this motion.
I would like to add that the Working Group has begun studying matters for review as marked on the Rules of Procedure and it is now reviewing the relationship between the PLC and its subordinate committees, the mutual relationship between these committees and the rules of individual committees. The Working Group welcomes advice from Honourable colleagues and it will study other marked matters as soon as possible. When a conclusion is reached, the Working Group will certainly submit a report to this Council.
Thank you, Madam President.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the English version of the Rules of Procedure of the Provisional Legislative Council of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region be adopted. Mrs Miriam LAU has given notice that she intends to move an amendment to this motion. The amendment has been set out on the Revised Agenda. To facilitate the expression of views by Members, I propose that the motion and the amendment be debated together in a joint debate. The Council shall debate on the motion and the amendment. I would call upon Mrs Miriam LAU to speak first and to move her amendment. After I have proposed the question on the amendment, Members may speak on the motion and the amendment. Mrs Miriam LAU.
MRS MIRIAM LAU (in Cantonese): Madam President, I move that the Honourable Mrs Selina CHOW's motion be amended as set out on the Revised Agenda.
The amendment I proposed seeks to make the English version of Rule 10(3) of the Rules of Procedure reflect more accurately the meaning of the Chinese version. In accordance with the Chinese version of Rule 10(3) of the Rules of Procedure, "除行政長官另有指示外", certain officials may attend any meeting of the Council, committees of the whole Council and other committees and subcommittees. This phrase is translated as "Subject to such direction as may otherwise be made by the Chief Executive" in the English version. These English wordings may be misunderstood to the effect that the attendance by the officials concerned at the meetings of the Provisional Legislative Council shall be subject to the direction made by the Chief Executive which does not conform to the meaning of the Chinese version. Therefore, I propose amending the phrase as "Subject to such direction as may otherwise be made by the Chief Executive". This is purely a technical amendment and it has been consented to by the Working Group on the Rules of Procedure.
I hope Honourable colleagues can support my amendment.
Thank you, Madam President.
Mrs Miriam LAU moved the following amendment:
"That Rule 10(3) in the Schedule to the motion on adoption of the English version of the Rules of Procedure of the Provisional Legislative Council of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region moved by Hon Mrs Selina CHOW at the meeting of the Provisional Legislative Council on 3 May 1997 be amended by deleting "Subject to the direction of the Chief Executive" and substituting "Subject to such direction as may otherwise be made by the Chief Executive"."
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That Mrs Selina CHOW's motion be amended by the amendment moved by Mrs Miriam LAU. We shall now proceed to a debate. Does any Member wish to speak? If not, Mrs Selina CHOW, do you wish to speak on the amendment?
MRS SELINA CHOW (in Cantonese): Madam President, I support the amendment moved by Mrs Miriam LAU on behalf of the Working Group. We gladly accept Mrs Miriam LAU's point just now that this amendment would make the Chinese and English versions of the Rule of Procedures consistent.
Thank you, Madam President.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you and that is: That Mrs Selina CHOW's motion be amended by the amendment moved by Mrs Miriam LAU.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will those in favour please say "aye"?
(Members responded)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please say "no".
(Members responded)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I think the "ayes" have it. I declare that the amendment is carried.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mrs Selina CHOW, do you wish to make a final reply?
(Mrs Selina CHOW shook her head to indicate that she did not wish to reply.)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you and that is: That Mrs Selina CHOW's motion as amended by Mrs Miriam LAU be approved.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will those in favour please say "aye"?
(Members responded)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please say "no".
(Members responded)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I think the "ayes" have it. I declare that Mrs Selina CHOW's motion as amended by Mrs Miriam LAU is carried.
NEXT MEETING
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now adjourn the Council until 9.30 am on Saturday, 10 May 1997.
Adjourned accordingly at three minutes to Ten o'clock.
