Council meeting (Minutes) 1 Apr 98

Provisional Legislative Council

PLC Paper No. CB(3) 892

Minutes of the meeting held on Wednesday 1 April 1998 at 2:30 pm

Members present:

President
The Hon Mrs Rita FAN, JP
The Hon WONG Siu-yee
The Hon James TIEN Pei-chun, JP
The Hon David CHU Yu-lin
The Hon HO Sai-chu, JP
The Hon Edward HO Sing-tin, JP
Dr Hon Raymond HO Chung-tai, JP
The Hon NG Leung-sing
Prof Hon NG Ching-fai
The Hon Eric LI Ka-cheung, JP
Dr Hon David LI Kwok-po, JP
The Hon LEE Kai-ming
The Hon Allen LEE, JP
The Hon Mrs Elsie TU, GBM
The Hon Mrs Selina CHOW, JP
The Hon Mrs Peggy LAM, JP
The Hon Henry WU
The Hon NGAI Shiu-kit, JP
The Hon Henry TANG Ying-yen, JP
The Hon Ronald ARCULLI, JP
The Hon YUEN Mo
The Hon MA Fung-kwok
The Hon CHEUNG Hon-chung
Dr Hon Mrs TSO WONG Man-yin
The Hon LEUNG Chun-ying, JP
Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung, JP
The Hon Mrs Sophie LEUNG LAU Yau-fun, JP
The Hon MOK Ying-fan
The Hon HUI Yin-fat, JP
The Hon CHAN Choi-hi
The Hon CHAN Yuen-han
The Hon CHAN Wing-chan
The Hon CHAN Kam-lam
The Hon TSANG Yok-sing
The Hon CHENG Kai-nam
The Hon Frederick FUNG Kin-kee
The Hon Andrew WONG Wang-fat, JP
Dr Hon Philip WONG Yu-hong
The Hon Kennedy WONG Ying-ho
The Hon Howard YOUNG, JP
Dr Hon Charles YEUNG Chun-kam
The Hon YEUNG Yiu-chung
The Hon IP Kwok-him
The Hon CHIM Pui-chung
The Hon Bruce LIU Sing-lee
The Hon LAU Kong-wah
The Hon LAU Wong-fat, JP
The Hon Mrs Miriam LAU Kin-yee, JP
The Hon Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen, JP
The Hon CHOY Kan-pui, JP
The Hon Paul CHENG Ming-fun, JP
The Hon CHENG Yiu-tong
Dr Hon TANG Siu-tong, JP
The Hon Timothy FOK Tsun-ting
The Hon KAN Fook-yee
The Hon NGAN Kam-chuen
The Hon LO Suk-ching
Dr Hon LAW Cheung-kwok
The Hon TAM Yiu-chung, JP
The Hon CHOY So-yuk

Public officers attending:

The Honourable Mrs Anson CHAN, JP: The Chief Secretary for Administration
Mr Rafael HUI Si-yan, JP: The Financial Secretary
Mr Michael SUEN Ming-yeung, JP: Secretary for Constitutional Affairs
Mr Nicholas NG Wing-fui, JP: Secretary for Transport
Mr Dominic WONG Shing-wah, JP: Secretary for Housing
Mrs Katherine FOK LO Shiu-ching, JP: Secretary for Health and Welfare
Mr Rafael HUI Si-yan, JP: Secretary for Financial Services
Mr Joseph WONG Wing-ping, JP: Secretary for Education and Manpower
Mr Bowen LEUNG Po-wing, JP: Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands
Mr David LAN Hong-tsung, JP: Secretary for Home Affairs
Mrs Rita LAU NG Wai-lan, JP: Secretary for Broadcasting, Culture and Sport

Clerks in attendance:

Mr Ricky FUNG Choi-cheung, JP,: Secretary General
Mr LAW Kam-sang, JP,: Deputy Secretary General
Mrs Justina LAM CHENG Bo-ling,: Assistant Secretary General (2)
Mr Ray CHAN Yum-mou,: Assistant Secretary General (3)

Papers

The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure:

Subsidiary Legislation

L.N. No.

Air Pollution Control (Vehicle Design Standards)(Emission) (Amendment) Regulation 1998 (L.N. 96 of 1998) (Commencement) Notice 1998

196/98

Sessional Papers

No.101 -	Audited Financial Statements and Programme of Activities of the Hong Kong Examinations Authority for the year ended 31 August 1997
No.102 -	Occupational Deafness Compensation Board Annual Report 1996/97
No.103 -	Securities and Futures Commission Approved Estimates of Income and Expenditure for the financial year 1998/99
No.104 -	Audited Statement of Accounts of the Director of Social Welfare Incorporated together with the Director of Audit's Report for the year ended 31 March 1997
No.105 -	The Government Minute in response to the Report No. 29 of the Public Accounts Committee dated February 1998

The Chief Secretary for Administration presented the "The Government Minute in response to the Report No. 29 of the Public Accounts Committee dated February 1998" and addressed the Council.

Reports

Mr Ronald ARCULLI, Chairman of the Finance Committee, presented the Report of the Finance Committee on the examination of the Draft Estimates of Expenditure 1998-99 (April 1998) and addressed the Council.

Mr MOK Ying-fan, Chairman of the Panel on Broadcasting, Culture and Sport, presented the Panel's report 1997/98 and addressed the Council.

Mr Andrew WONG, Chairman of the Panel on Constitutional Affairs, presented the Panel's report 1997/98 and addressed the Council.

Mr James TIEN, Chairman of the Panel on Economic Services, presented the Panel's report 1997/98 and addressed the Council.

Mr Paul CHENG, Chairman of the Panel on Financial Affairs, presented the Panel's report 1997/98 and addressed the Council.

Mrs Miriam LAU, Chairman of the Panel on Transport, presented the Panel's report 1997/98 and addressed the Council.

Miss CHAN Yuen-han, Chairman of the Bills Committee on Housing (Amendment) (No.3) Bill 1997, presented the Committee's report and addressed the Council.

Questions

1. Mr CHAN Wing-chan asked Question 1.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

Six Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

2. Mrs Elsie TU asked Question 2.

The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands replied.

Five Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands replied.

3. Mr CHENG Yiu-tong asked Question 3.

The Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

Four Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

4. Mr CHENG Kai-nam asked Question 4.

The Secretary for Housing replied.

Seven Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Housing replied.

5. Mr Ambrose LAU asked Question 5.

The Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

Five Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

6. Dr TANG Siu-tong asked Question 6.

The Secretary for Transport replied.

Four Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Transport replied.

Written replies to Questions 7 to 19 were tabled for Members information.

Bills

Adaptation of Laws (References to Foreign Country, etc.) Bill

Second Reading

The debate on the Second Reading which had been moved on 11 February 1998 resumed.

Question on the Second Reading put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

Committee Stage

The Council went into Committee and considered the Adaptation of Laws (References to Foreign Country, etc.) Bill.

Question that clauses 1 and 2 stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

Question that the schedule stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

The Council then resumed.

Third Reading

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs reported that

the Adaptation of Laws (References to Foreign Country, etc.) Bill

had passed through Committee without amendment. He moved that the Bill be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the Third Reading proposed, put and agreed to.

Bill read the third time and passed.

Housing (Amendment) (No.3) Bill 1997

Second Reading

The debate on the Second Reading which had been moved on 7 January 1998 resumed.

Question on the Second Reading put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

Committee Stage

The Council went into Committee and considered the Housing (Amendment) (No.3) Bill 1997.

Question that clauses 1 to 6 stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

Question that clause 7 stand part of the Bill proposed.

Two Members and the Secretary for Housing spoke on clause 7.

Question that clause 7(a)(i) stand part of the Bill put.

Dr Philip WONG claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 47(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that there were 35 votes for the motion, 13 votes against it and no abstention. (Voting record in Appendix I.) She declared that the motion was carried.

Question that clause 7(a)(ii) and (b) stand part of the Bill put.

Miss CHAN Yuen-han claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 47(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that there were 35 votes for the motion, 13 votes against it and no abstention. (Voting record in Appendix II.) She declared that the motion was carried.

Question that clause 8 stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

The Council then resumed.

Third Reading

The Secretary for Housing reported that

the Housing (Amendment) (No.3) Bill 1997

had passed through Committee without amendment. He moved that the Bill be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the Third Reading proposed, put and agreed to.

Bill read the third time and passed.

Motions

Mandatory Provident Fund Schemes Ordinance

The Secretary for Financial Services moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Mandatory Provident Fund Schemes (General) Regulation made by the Chief Executive in Council on 10 March 1998, be approved.

Question on the Secretary for Financial Services' motion proposed. The President stated that Dr LAW Cheung-kwok had given notice to move an amendment to section 47(5) of the Regulation and that Mr WONG Siu-yee had also given notice to move an amendment to section 16(1) of Part III of Schedule 1 of the Regulation. She proposed that the motion and the two proposed amendments be debated together in a joint debate. There being no dissenting voice, the President ordered that the motion and the two proposed amendments be debated together.

Dr LAW Cheung-kwok and Mr WONG Siu-yee spoke on the motion and their own proposed amendments.

Eight Members spoke on the motion and the proposed amendments.

The Secretary for Financial Services spoke on the proposed amendments.

Dr LAW Cheung-kwok moved the following amendment to the Secretary for Financial Services' motion:

That the motion to be moved by the Secretary for Financial Services under section 46 of the Mandatory Provident Fund Schemes Ordinance (Cap. 485) at the Provisional Legislative Council meeting on 1 April 1998 be amended

by deleting "be approved." and substituting "subject to the following amendments, be approved ";
by adding

Question on Dr LAW Cheung-kwok's amendment to the Secretary for Financial Services' motion proposed and put.

Dr LAW Cheung-kwok claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to a divide under Rule 47(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that there were four votes for the amendment, 47 votes against it and no abstention. (Voting record in Appendix III.) She declared that Dr LAW Cheung-kwok's amendment to the Secretary for Financial Services' motion was negatived.

Mr WONG Siu-yee moved the following amendment to the Secretary for Financial Services' motion:

by deleting "be approved." and substituting "subject to the following amendments, be approved ";
by adding

Question on Mr WONG Siu-yee's amendment to the Secretary for Financial Services' motion proposed and put.

Mr WONG Siu-yee claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to a divide under Rule 47(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that there were 15 votes for the amendment, 34 votes against it and no abstention. (Voting record in Appendix IV.) She declared that Mr WONG Siu-yee's amendment to the Secretary for Financial Services' motion was negatived.

Question on the Secretary for Financial Services' motion put and agreed to.

Mandatory Provident Fund Schemes Ordinance

The Secretary for Financial Services moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Mandatory Provident Fund Schemes (Exemption) Regulation, made by the Chief Executive in Council on 10 March 1998, be approved.

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

Mandatory Provident Fund Schemes Ordinance

The Secretary for Financial Services moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Mandatory Provident Fund Schemes (Amendment of Schedule 6) Notice 1998 made by the Chief Executive in Council on 10 March 1998, be approved.

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

Members' Motions

Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance

Mr CHAN Kam-lam moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Attachment of Income Order Rules, published as Legal Notice No. 118 of 1998, and laid on the table of the Provisional Legislative Council on 25 February 1998, be amended-

in rule 3(2)(a), by repealing "the name and address of the designated payee" and substituting "the name of the designated payee, and his address for service of documents relating to the application";
in rule 3(2)(i), by adding "if known to the designated payee," before "the name and address";
in rule 9(3)(a), by repealing "the name and address of the designated payee" and substituting "the name of the designated payee, and his address for service of documents relating to the application";
in rule 10(3)(a), by repealing "the name and address of the designated payee" and substituting "the name of the designated payee, and his address for service of documents relating to the application"; and
by adding -

"12. Service of documents

Without prejudice to the provisions of the Rules of the Supreme Court (Cap. 4 sub. leg.), District Court Civil Procedure (General) Rules (Cap. 336 sub. leg.), Matrimonial Causes Rules (Cap. 179 sub. leg.) and any other enactment relating to the service of documents and save as is otherwise expressly provided, any document required to be sent to or served on any person for the purposes of these Rules may -

be personally given to or served on that person; or
be sent -
1. if that person is represented, by post to the solicitor acting for that person, or by leaving the same with the solicitor; or
2. if that person is unrepresented, by post to the address for service given by him or his last known address, or by leaving the same at the address for service or the last known address of that person; or
where it is impracticable to serve a document which has to be served personally, be effected by substituted service if the court so orders; or
be served in such other manner as the court may direct.".

Question on the motion proposed.

A Member and the Secretary for Home Affairs spoke on the motion.

Mr CHAN Kam-lam replied.

Question on the motion put and agreed to.

Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance

Mrs Selina CHOW moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That in relation to the Public Health (Animals and Birds) (Amendment) (No.2) Regulation 1998, published as Legal Notice No. 165 of 1998, and laid on the table of the Provisional Legislative Council on 4 March 1998, the period referred to in section 34(2) of the Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance (Cap. 1) for amending subsidiary legislation be extended under section 34(4) of that Ordinance to the meeting of 7 April 1998.

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

Editorial independence of Radio Television Hong Kong

Mr Edward HO moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That this Council endorses the re-affirmation by the Government of the editorial independence of Radio Television Hong Kong.

Question on Mr Edward HO's motion proposed. The President stated that Mr K K FUNG and Mr WONG Siu-yee had separately given notice to move amendments to the motion and that Mr CHENG Kai-nam had also given notice to move an amendment to Mr WONG Siu-yee's proposed amendment. She proposed that the motion, the two proposed amendments and the amendment to the proposed amendment be debated together in a joint debate. There being no dissenting voice, the President ordered that the motion, the two proposed amendments and the amendment to the proposed amendment be debated together.

Mr K K FUNG spoke on the motion and his own proposed amendment.

At 7:39 pm, the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

Mr WONG Siu-yee and Mr CHENG Kai-nam spoke on the motion and their own proposed amendments.

11 Members spoke on the motion and the proposed amendments.

Mr Edward HO spoke on the proposed amendments.

At 9:17 pm, the President resumed the chair.

The Secretary for Broadcasting, Culture and Sport spoke on the motion and the proposed amendments.

Mr K K FUNG moved the following amendment to Mr Edward HO's motion:

To delete "endorses" and substitute with "urges"; to delete "the re-affirmation by"; to delete "of the editorial independence" and substitute with "to launch the corporatisation" and to add ", so as to ensure that Radio Television Hong Kong can effectively maintain editorial independence as the guiding principle in producing its programmes" after "of Radio Television Hong Kong".

Question on Mr K K FUNG's amendment to Mr Edward HO's motion proposed, put and negatived.

Mr WONG Siu-yee moved the following amendment to Mr Edward HO's motion:

To delete "re-affirmation by the Government" and substitute with "granting"; to delete "the" from "of the editorial independence"; to delete "of" from "of Radio Television Hong Kong" and substitute with "to"; and to add "by the Government in accordance with the framework agreement reached between the Broadcasting, Culture and Sport Bureau and Radio Television Hong Kong on 15 July 1997 but, at the same time, the Government must fully implement the stipulations relating to the working relationship between and the respective responsibilities of the Director of Broadcasting and the Secretary for Broadcasting, Culture and Sport, as well as other conditions contained in the aforesaid agreement, so as to ensure the production of fair, balanced and objective news, public affairs and general programming by Radio Television Hong Kong" after "Radio Television Hong Kong".

Question on Mr WONG Siu-yee's amendment to Mr Edward HO's motion proposed.

Mr CHENG Kai-nam moved the following amendment to Mr WONG Siu-yee's amendment:

To delete "granting of"; to delete "to" from "to Radio Television Hong Kong" and substitute with "of"; to delete "by the Government in accordance with the framework agreement reached between the Broadcasting, Culture and Sport Bureau and Radio Television Hong Kong on 15 July 1997 but, at the same time, the Government must fully implement the stipulations relating to the working relationship between and the respective responsibilities of the Director of Broadcasting and the Secretary for Broadcasting, Culture and Sport, as well as other conditions contained in the aforesaid agreement, so as to ensure"; and to add "and" before "the production of fair,".

Question on Mr CHENG Kai-nam's amendment to Mr WONG Siu-yee's amendment proposed and put. The President said that she thought the amendment was agreed.

Mr WONG Siu-yee claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to a divide under Rule 47(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that there were 32 votes for the amendment, nine votes against it and one abstention. (Voting record in Appendix V.) She declared that Mr CHENG Kai-nam's amendment to Mr WONG Siu-yee's amendment was agreed.

Question on Mr WONG Siu-yee's amendment, as amended by Mr CHENG Kai-nam, proposed, put and agreed to.

Mr Edward HO replied.

Question on Mr Edward HO's motion, as amended by Mr WONG Siu-yee's amendment which had been amended by Mr CHENG Kai-nam, put and agreed to.

Establishing a Social Welfare Services Development Fund

Mr Eric LI moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That, in order to make up for the shortfall and inadequacy in social welfare services in the past and to fulfil the pledges the Government has openly made in regard to social welfare services, this Council urges the Government to make a provision of $3.4 billion for the establishment of a Social Welfare Services Development Fund, so as to cope with the normal growth in the communitys demands on social welfare services in the next five years and to ensure the steady development of social welfare services.

Question on the motion proposed.

Six Members and the Secretary for Health and Welfare spoke on the motion.

Mr Eric LI replied.

Question on the motion put and agreed to.

Next meeting

The President declared that the next meeting of the Council would be held on 7 April 1998 at 2:30 pm.

The Council was adjourned at 10:27 pm.

(Mrs Rita FAN)
President

Council Chamber
Hong Kong