Provisional Legislative Council

PLC Paper No. 51

Minutes of the meeting held on Wednesday
9 July 1997 at 2:30 pm

Members present:

President
The Hon Mrs Rita FAN, JP
The Hon WONG Siu-yee
The Hon James TIEN Pei-chun, JP
The Hon David CHU Yu-lin
The Hon HO Sai-chu, JP
The Hon Edward HO Sing-tin, JP
Dr Hon Raymond HO Chung-tai, JP
The Hon NG Leung-sing
Prof Hon NG Ching-fai
The Hon Eric LI Ka-cheung, JP
Dr Hon David LI Kwok-po, JP
The Hon LEE Kai-ming
The Hon Allen LEE, JP
The Hon Mrs Elsie TU, GBM
The Hon Mrs Selina CHOW, JP
The Hon Mrs Peggy LAM, JP
The Hon Henry WU
The Hon Henry TANG Ying-yen, JP
The Hon Ronald ARCULLI, JP
The Hon YUEN Mo
The Hon MA Fung-kwok
The Hon CHEUNG Hon-chung
Dr Hon Mrs TSO WONG Man-yin
The Hon LEUNG Chun-ying, JP
Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung, JP
The Hon Mrs Sophie LEUNG LAU Yau-fun, JP
The Hon MOK Ying-fan
The Hon HUI Yin-fat, JP
The Hon CHAN Choi-hi
The Hon CHAN Yuen-han
The Hon CHAN Wing-chan
The Hon CHAN Kam-lam
The Hon TSANG Yok-sing
The Hon CHENG Kai-nam
The Hon Frederick FUNG Kin-kee
The Hon Andrew WONG Wang-fat, JP
Dr Hon Philip WONG Yu-hong
The Hon Kennedy WONG Ying-ho
The Hon Howard YOUNG, JP
Dr Hon Charles YEUNG Chun-kam
The Hon YEUNG Yiu-chung
The Hon IP Kwok-him
The Hon CHIM Pui-chung
The Hon Bruce LIU Sing-lee
The Hon LAU Kong-wah
The Hon LAU Wong-fat, JP
The Hon Mrs Miriam LAU Kin-yee, JP
The Hon Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen, JP
The Hon CHOY Kan-pui, JP
The Hon Paul CHENG Ming-fun, JP
The Hon CHENG Yiu-tong
Dr Hon TANG Siu-tong, JP
The Hon Timothy FOK Tsun-ting
The Hon KAN Fook-yee
The Hon NGAN Kam-chuen
The Hon LO Suk-ching
Dr Hon LAW Cheung-kwok
The Hon TAM Yiu-chung, JP

Member absent:

The Hon NGAI Shiu-kit, JP

Public officers attending:

The Honourable Mrs Anson CHAN, JP

The Chief Secretary for Administration

The Honourable Donald TSANG Yam-kuen, JP

The Financial Secretary

The Honourable Miss Elsie LEUNG Oi-sie, JP

The Secretary for Justice

Mr CHAU Tak-hay, JP

Secretary for Broadcasting, Culture and Sport

Mr Gordon SIU Kwing-chue, JP

Secretary for Transport

Mrs Katherine FOK LO Shiu-ching, JP

Secretary for Health and Welfare

Mr Joseph WONG Wing-ping, JP

Secretary for Education and Manpower

Mr Peter LAI Hing-ling, JP

Secretary for Security

Miss Denise YUE Chung-yee, JP

Secretary for Trade and Industry

Mr LAM Woon-kwong, JP

Secretary for the Civil Service

Clerks in attendance:

Mr Ricky FUNG Choi-cheung, JP,

Secretary General

Mr LAW Kam-sang, JP,

Deputy Secretary General

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Papers

The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Rules of Procedure No. 21(2):

Bills

First Reading

Legislative Provisions (Suspension of Operation) Bill 1997
Hong Kong Special Administrative Region Passports Bill
Chinese Nationality (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill
United Nations Sanctions Bill
Immigration (Amendment) (No.5) Bill 1997

The Bills were read the first time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Rule 53(3) of the Rules of Procedure.

Second Reading

Legislative Provisions (Suspension of Operation) Bill 1997

The Chief Secretary for Administration moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee.

Hong Kong Special Administrative Region Passports Bill
Chinese Nationality (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill

The Secretary for Security moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council on each of the above two Bills.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debates on the above Bills were adjourned and the Bills were referred to the House Committee.

United Nations Sanctions Bill

The Secretary for Trade and Industry moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee.

Immigration (Amendment) (No.5) Bill 1997

The Secretary for Security moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

The Secretary for Security further moved the following motion in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure:

That the Second Reading debate on the Immigration (Amendment) (No.5) Bill 1997 be not adjourned and that the debate should proceed forthwith.

Question on the Second Reading proposed.

Question on the Secretary for Security ' s motion that the Second Reading debate on the Bill be not adjourned was proposed.

Two Members spoke on the Secretary for Security's motion.

Question on the Secretary for Security's motion put. The President stated that she thought the motion had been carried.

Mr CHAN Choi-hi claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to proceed to a division under Rule 47(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that there were 48 votes for the motion and 5 votes against it. (Voting record in Appendix I.) She declared that the motion was carried.

The President further declared that as the motion moved by the Secretary for Security under Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure was carried, the Council would proceed with the Second Reading debate on the Bill forthwith.

15 Members spoke on the motion that the Bill be read the second time.

A Member drew the attention of the President to the absence of a quorum. The President directed that the Council be suspended and Members be summoned. A quorum was then present.

Another Member spoke on the motion.

The Secretary for Security replied.

Question on the Second Reading put. The President stated that she thought the motion had been carried.

Mr K K FUNG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to proceed to a division under Rule 47(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that there were 49 votes for the motion and six votes against it. (Voting record in Appendix II.) She declared that the motion was carried.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

The President suspended the meeting at 5:25 pm.

The Council resumed at 6:03 pm.

Committee Stage

The Council went into Committee and considered the Immigration (Amendment) (No.5) Bill 1997.

Question that the following clauses stand part of the Bill proposed.

Question on clauses 3, 5, 6, 8, 9 and 11 put and agreed to.

Mr Ronald ARCULLI moved an amendment to clause 1 and addressed the Committee.

30 Members and the Secretary for Security spoke on the amendment.

Mr Ronald ARCULLI replied.

Question on the amendment put.

Mr Ronald ARCULLI claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to proceed to a division under Rule 47(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that there were 22 votes for the amendment and 33 votes against it. (Voting record in Appendix III.) She declared that the amendment was negatived.

Dr C H LEONG rose to move the following motion without notice:

That in the event of further divisions being claimed in respect of the remaining motions to be moved at the Committee Stage of the Immigration (Amendment) (No.5) Bill 1997 at this meeting, Rule 47(4) of the Rules of Procedure be suspended so that the Chairman may order that the Committee do proceed to each of such divisions immediately after the division bell has been rung for one minute.

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

Question that the original clause 1 stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.

The Secretary for Security moved an amendment to clause 2 and addressed the Committee.

Question on the amendment put and agreed to.

Question that clause 2, as amended, stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.

Mr Bruce LIU moved amendments to the proposed section 2AA in clause 4 and addressed the Committee.

Two Members and the Secretary for Security spoke on the amendments.

Question on Mr Bruce LIU's amendments put.

Mr Bruce LIU claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to proceed to a division under Rule 49(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that there were seven votes for the amendments and 44 votes against them. (Voting record in Appendix IV.) She declared that the amendments were negatived.

The Secretary for Security moved an amendment to the proposed section 2AB(2)(b) in clause 4 and addressed the Committee.

Question on the Secretary for Security's amendment put and agreed to.

Mr Andrew WONG moved another amendment to the proposed section 2AB in clause 4 and addressed the Committee.

The Secretary for Security spoke on the amendment.

Mr Andrew WONG replied.

Question on Mr Andrew WONG's amendment put.

The Chairman stated that she thought the amendment had been negatived.

Mr Andrew WONG claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to proceed to a division under Rule 49(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that there were 10 votes for the amendment and 30 votes against it. (Voting record in Appendix V.) She declared that Mr Andrew WONG's amendment was negatived.

The Secretary for Security moved an amendment to the proposed section 2AC(2)(b) in clause 4 and addressed the Committee.

Question on the Secretary for Security's amendment put and agreed to.

Mr Andrew WONG moved another amendment to the proposed section 2AC in clause 4 and addressed the Committee.

Question on Mr Andrew WONG's amendment put and negatived.

Mr Andrew WONG moved an amendment to the proposed section 2AD in clause 4 and addressed the Committee.

The Secretary for Security spoke on the amendment.

Mr Andrew WONG replied.

Question on Mr Andrew WONG's amendment put. The Chairman stated that she thought the amendment had been negatived.

Mr Andrew WONG claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to proceed to a division under Rule 49(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that there were six votes for the amendment and 31 votes against it. (Voting record in Appendix VI.) She declared that Mr Andrew WONG's amendment was negatived.

The Secretary for Security moved an amendment to the proposed section 2AD in clause 4 and addressed the Committee.

Question on the Secretary for Security's amendment put and agreed to.

Mr Andrew WONG moved amendments to the proposed section 2AA in clause 4 as well as amendments to clauses 7 and 10 and addressed the Committee.

The Secretary for Security and a Member spoke on the amendments.

Question on Mr Andrew WONG's amendments put. The Chairman stated that she thought the amendments had been negatived.

Mr Andrew WONG claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to proceed to a division under Rule 49(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that there were six votes for the amendments and 29 votes against them. (Voting record in Appendix VII.) She declared that Mr Andrew WONG's amendments were negatived.

The Chairman suspended the meeting at 9:29 pm.

The Committee resumed at 9:39 pm.

The Secretary for Security moved an amendment to the proposed section 2AE in clause 4 and addressed the Committee.

Question on the Secretary for Security's amendment put and agreed to.

Question that clause 4, as amended, stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.

Question that the original clauses 7 and 10 stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.

The Council then resumed.

Third Reading

The Secretary for Security reported that

Immigration (Amendment) (No.5) Bill 1997

had passed through Committee with amendments. He moved that the Bill be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the Third Reading proposed and put.

Mr Bruce LIU claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to proceed to a division under Rule 47(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that there were 45 votes for the motion and six votes against it. (Voting record in Appendix VIII.) She declared that the motion was carried.

Bill read the third time and passed.

Members' Motions

Increasing the standard rate under the Comprehensive Social Security Assistance Scheme for the elderly

The President stated that the motion had been moved by Mr CHAN Choi-hi at the Council meeting held on 17 May 1997, and Mr K K FUNG had also spoken and moved his motion to amend Mr CHAN's motion. After the questions on the motion and on the amendment had been proposed, the Council subsequently agreed to another motion moved by Mr NGAI Shiu-kit under Rule 40(1) of the Rules of Procedure and adjourned the debate. The debate was now resumed on notice being given by Mr CHAN under the Rules of Procedure.

A Member spoke on the motion and the amendment.

At 9:51 pm, the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

Another seven Members spoke on the motion and the amendment.

At 10:26 pm, the President resumed the chair.

Five more Members spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Mr CHAN Choi-hi spoke on the amendment.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Question on Mr K K FUNG's amendment to Mr CHAN Choi-hi's motion put. The President stated that she thought the amendment had been agreed.

Mr Bruce LIU claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to proceed to a division under Rule 47(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that there were 30 votes for the amendment and no vote against it. (Voting record in Appendix IX.) She declared that Mr K K FUNG's amendment to Mr CHAN Choi-hi's motion was agreed.

Mr CHAN Choi-hi replied.

Question on Mr CHAN Choi-hi's motion as amended by Mr K K FUNG put and agreed to.

The President announced that Miss CHAN Yuen-han had given notice to withdraw her motion on "Resolving the problems left by the British Hong Kong Government which affect the livelihood of the populace", which would be debated at the next meeting.

Next meeting

The President declared that the next meeting of the Council would be held on 16 July 1997 at 2:30 pm.

The meeting was adjourned at 11:10 pm.

(Mrs Rita FAN)
President

Council Chamber
Hong Kong