Council meeting (Minutes) 10 Dec 97

Provisional Legislative Council

PLC Paper No. CB(3)461

Minutes of the meeting held on
Wednesday 10 December 1997 at 2:30 pm

Members present:

President
The Hon Mrs Rita FAN, JP
The Hon WONG Siu-yee
The Hon James TIEN Pei-chun, JP
The Hon David CHU Yu-lin
The Hon HO Sai-chu, JP
The Hon Edward HO Sing-tin, JP
Dr Hon Raymond HO Chung-tai, JP
The Hon NG Leung-sing
Prof Hon NG Ching-fai
The Hon Eric LI Ka-cheung, JP
Dr Hon David LI Kwok-po, JP
The Hon LEE Kai-ming
The Hon Allen LEE, JP
The Hon Mrs Elsie TU, GBM
The Hon Mrs Selina CHOW, JP
The Hon Mrs Peggy LAM, JP
The Hon Henry WU
The Hon NGAI Shiu-kit, JP
The Hon Henry TANG Ying-yen, JP
The Hon Ronald ARCULLI, JP
The Hon YUEN Mo
The Hon MA Fung-kwok
The Hon CHEUNG Hon-chung
Dr Hon Mrs TSO WONG Man-yin
The Hon LEUNG Chun-ying, JP
Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung, JP
The Hon Mrs Sophie LEUNG LAU Yau-fun, JP
The Hon MOK Ying-fan
The Hon HUI Yin-fat, JP
The Hon CHAN Choi-hi
The Hon CHAN Yuen-han
The Hon CHAN Wing-chan
The Hon CHAN Kam-lam
The Hon TSANG Yok-sing
The Hon CHENG Kai-nam
The Hon Frederick FUNG Kin-kee
The Hon Andrew WONG Wang-fat, JP
Dr Hon Philip WONG Yu-hong
The Hon Kennedy WONG Ying-ho
The Hon Howard YOUNG, JP
Dr Hon Charles YEUNG Chun-kam
The Hon YEUNG Yiu-chung
The Hon IP Kwok-him
The Hon CHIM Pui-chung
The Hon Bruce LIU Sing-lee
The Hon LAU Kong-wah
The Hon LAU Wong-fat, JP
The Hon Mrs Miriam LAU Kin-yee, JP
The Hon Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen, JP
The Hon CHOY Kan-pui, JP
The Hon Paul CHENG Ming-fun, JP
Dr Hon TANG Siu-tong, JP
The Hon Timothy FOK Tsun-ting
The Hon KAN Fook-yee
The Hon NGAN Kam-chuen
The Hon LO Suk-ching
Dr Hon LAW Cheung-kwok
The Hon TAM Yiu-chung, JP
The Hon CHOY So-yuk

Member absent:

The Hon CHENG Yiu-tong

Public officers attending:

The Honourable Donald TSANG Yam-kuen, JP: The Financial Secretary
The Honourable Elsie LEUNG Oi-sie, JP: The Secretary for Justice
Mr Nicholas NG Wing-fui, JP: Secretary for Transport
Mrs Katherine FOK LO Shiu-ching, JP: Secretary for Health and Welfare
Mr Peter LAI Hing-ling, JP: Secretary for Security
Mr Bowen LEUNG Po-wing, JP: Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands
Mr Stephen IP Shu-kwan, JP: Secretary for Economic Services
Mr David LAN Hong-tsung, JP: Secretary for Home Affairs

Clerks in attendance:

Mr Ricky FUNG Choi-cheung, JP,: Secretary General
Mr LAW Kam-sang, JP,: Deputy Secretary General
Mr Ray CHAN Yum-mou,: Assistant Secretary General (3)

Papers

The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure:

	Subsidiary Legislation	L.N. No.
1.	Merchant Shipping (Prevention and Control of Pollution) (Charges for Discharge of Polluting Waste) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	569/97
2.	Waste Disposal (Permits and Licences) (Forms and Fees) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	570/97
3.	Waste Disposal (Chemical Waste) (General) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	571/97
4.	Water Pollution Control (General) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	572/97
5.	Electoral Affairs Commission (Registration of Electors) (Geographical Constituencies) (Legislative Council) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	574/97
6.	Electoral Affairs Commission (Registration) (Electors for Functional Constituencies) (Voters for Subsectors) (Members of Election Committee) (Legislative Council) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	575/97
7.	Employment Agency (Amendment) Regulation 1997	576/97
8.	Air Pollution Control (Specified Processes) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	577/97
9.	Air Pollution Control (Open Burning) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	578/97
10.	Air Pollution Control (Asbestos) (Administration) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	579/97
11.	Ozone Layer Protection (Fees) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	580/97
12.	Noise Control (General) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	581/97
13.	Noise Control (Air Compressors) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	582/97
14.	Noise Control (Hand Held Percussive Breakers) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	583/97
15.	Dumping at Sea (Fees) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	584/97
16.	Road Traffic Ordinance (Amendment of Schedule 10) Order 1997	585/97
17.	Import and Export Ordinance (Amendment of Schedule 2) Notice 1997	586/97
18.	Import and Export Ordinance (Amendment of Schedule 3) Notice 1997	587/97
19.	Hawker (Permitted Place) (No.2) Declaration 1997	588/97
20.	Import and Export (Amendment) Ordinance 1995 (30 of 1995) (Commencement) (No.2) Notice 1997	589/97
21.	Buildings (Amendment) Ordinance 1996 (54 of 1996) (Commencement) (No.4) Notice 1997	590/97
22.	Buildings (Amendment) Ordinance 1997 (36 of 1997) (Commencement) Notice 1997	591/97
23.	Road Traffic (Construction and Maintenance of Vehicles) (Amendment) (No.3) Regulation 1997 (L.N.243 of 1997) (Commencement) Notice 1997	592/97

Sessional Papers

No.44	-	Report by the Trustee of the Police Children's Education Trust, Police Education and Welfare Trust for the period 1 April 1996 - 31 March 1997
No.45	-	Office of the Privacy Commissioner for Personal Data, Hong Kong Annual Report 1996-97

Questions

Question permitted by the President under Rule 24(4) of the Rules of Procedure

Mr Allen LEE asked a question concerning a recent incident in which a truck loaded with cyanide turned over near the reservoir, causing the cyanide to be scattered onto the road and nearly fall into the reservoir.

The Secretary for Security replied.

Seven Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Security replied.

1.Mr LO Suk-ching asked Question 2.

The Secretary for Security replied.

Three Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Security replied.

2.Mr CHAN Choi-hi asked Question 3.

The Secretary for Economic Services replied.

Five Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Economic Services replied.

3.Mr Howard YOUNG asked Question 4.

The Secretary for Security replied.

Four Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Security replied.

4.Mr LAU Kong-wah asked Question 5.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

Eight Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

5.Mr HUI Yin-fat asked Question 6.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

Two Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

6.Mr Bruce LIU asked Question 1, under Rule 26(6) of the Rules of Procedure, on behalf of Mr MOK Ying-fan who was not present.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

Two Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

Written replies to Questions 7 to 20 were tabled for Members' information.

Bills

First Reading

Mass Transit Railway Corporation (Amendment) Bill 1997

The Bill was read the first time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Rule 53(3) of the Rules of Procedure.

Second Reading

Mass Transit Railway Corporation (Amendment) Bill 1997

The Secretary for Transport moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee.

Cross-Harbour Tunnel (Cross-Harbour Tunnel Regulations) (Amendment) Ordinance 1997 (Amendment) Bill 1997

Resumption of debate on Second Reading which had been moved on 26 November 1997.

Two Members spoke on the motion.

The Secretary for Transport replied.

Question on Second Reading put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

Tate's Cairn Tunnel (Tate's Cairn Tunnel Regulations) (Amendment) Ordinance 1997 (Amendment) Bill 1997

Resumption of debate on Second Reading which had been moved on 26 November 1997.

Question on Second Reading put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

Committee Stage

The Council went into Committee and considered the following Bills:

Cross-Harbour Tunnel (Cross-Harbour Tunnel Regulations) (Amendment) Ordinance 1997 (Amendment) Bill 1997

Question that clauses 1 and 2 stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

Tate's Cairn Tunnel (Tate's Cairn Tunnel Regulations) (Amendment) Ordinance 1997 (Amendment) Bill 1997

Question that clauses 1 and 2 stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

The Council then resumed.

Third Reading

The Secretary for Transport reported that

the Cross-Harbour Tunnel (Cross-Harbour Tunnel Regulations) (Amendment) Ordinance 1997 (Amendment) Bill 1997 and
the Tate's Cairn Tunnel (Tate's Cairn Tunnel Regulations) (Amendment) Ordinance 1997 (Amendment) Bill 1997

had passed through Committee without amendment. He moved that the two Bills be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the Third Reading of the two Bills proposed, put and agreed to.

Bills read the third time and passed.

Motions

Disability Discrimination Ordinance

The Secretary for Health and Welfare moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Disability Discrimination (Proceedings by Equal Opportunities Commission) Regulation, made by the Secretary for Health and Welfare on 25 November 1997, be approved.

Question on the motion proposed.

A Member spoke on the motion.

Question on the motion put and agreed to.

Members' Motions

Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance

Mr Henry WU moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Electoral Affairs Commission (Registration of Electors) (Geographical Constituencies) (Legislative Council) Regulation, published as Legal Notice No. 499 of 1997 and laid on the table of the Provisional Legislative Council on 5 November 1997, be amended -

in section 2(1), by repealing the definition of "identity document" and substituting -
""identity document" ( ) has the meaning assigned to "identity document" by section 3(1) of the Legislative Council Ordinance (134 of 1997);";
in sections 3(2)(b), (3) and (5)(a), 10(4), 13(5), 14(3) and (4), 15(1)(c)(ii), (2), (3) and (9), 17(1), 18(1)(c), 19(2)(c) and 20(5) by repealing " " and substituting " ".

Question on the motion proposed.

10 Members and the Secretary for Justice spoke on the motion.

Mr Henry WU replied.

Question on the motion put.

Mr Henry WU claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that there were 14 votes for the motion, 30 votes against it and seven abstentions. (Voting record in Appendix I.) She declared that the motion was negatived.

Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance

Mr Henry WU withdrew the notice of his second motion.

Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance

Mr Edward HO moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That in relation to the -

Building (Administration) (Amendment) (No.4) Regulation 1997, published as Legal Notice No. 514 of 1997;
Building (Demolition Works) (Amendment) Regulation 1997, published as Legal Notice No. 515 of 1997;
Building (Standards of Sanitary Fitments, Plumbing, Drainage Works and Latrines) (Amendment) (No.2) Regulation 1997, published as Legal Notice No. 516 of 1997; and
Building (Ventilating Systems) (Amendment) Regulation 1997, published as Legal Notice No. 517 of 1997,

and laid on the table of the Provisional Legislative Council on 12 November 1997, the period referred to in section 34(2) of the Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance (Cap.1) for amending subsidiary legislation be extended under section 34(4) of that Ordinance to the meeting of 17 December 1997.

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

Speeding up the pace of urban renewal

Mr IP Kwok-him moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That this Council urges the Special Administrative Region Government to expeditiously set up an Urban Renewal Authority, so as to speed up the pace of urban renewal, improve the environment of the urban areas and increase community facilities from an overall planning perspective, provide reasonable compensation to property owners and commercial tenants affected by the renewal, and collaborate with the Housing Authority and the Housing Society in making proper arrangements for rehousing and settling matters with tenants in private residential property in the renewal areas; furthermore, the Urban Renewal Authority must have adequate transparency and ensure that its powers and resources are used in a reasonable manner.

Question on Mr IP Kwok-him's motion proposed. The President stated that Mr K K FUNG had given notice to move an amendment to the motion. She proposed that the motion and the proposed amendment be debated together in a joint debate. There being no dissenting voice, the President ordered that the motion and the proposed amendment be debated together.

Mr K K FUNG moved the following amendment to Mr IP Kwok-him's motion and addressed the Council:

To delete "provide reasonable compensation to" and substitute with "review afresh the formula for calculating compensation for the"; to delete "," from "affected by the renewal,"; to delete "collaborate" and substitute with ", together"; to delete "in making proper arrangements for rehousing and settling matters with" and substitute with ", make a pledge to rehouse"; to add "within the same district" after "in the renewal areas"; and to add "representativeness, accountability and" after "the Urban Renewal Authority must have adequate".

At 5:33 pm, the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

Question on Mr K K FUNG's amendment to Mr IP Kwok-him's motion proposed.

14 Members spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Mr IP Kwok-him spoke on the amendment.

At 7:03 pm, the President resumed the chair.

The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Question on Mr K K FUNG's amendment to Mr IP Kwok-him's motion put. The President said that she thought the amendment was negatived.

Mr K K FUNG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that there were six votes for the amendment, 31 votes against it and two abstentions. (Voting record in Appendix II.) She declared that the amendment was negatived.

Mr IP Kwok-him replied.

Question on Mr IP Kwok-him's motion put and agreed to.

Review of social welfare subvention system

Mr HUI Yin-fat moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That, in view of the fact that the Government has all along been delivering most of the social welfare services through subvention to social welfare organizations so as to fulfil its obligation and commitment as a service provider to the community, this Council urges the Government to ensure that the quality and continuity of services be maintained in its review of the social welfare subvention system.

Question on Mr HUI Yin-fat's motion proposed. The President stated that Mr Bruce LIU had given notice to move an amendment to the motion. She proposed that the motion and the proposed amendment be debated together in a joint debate. There being no dissenting voice, the President ordered that the motion and the proposed amendment be debated together.

Mr Bruce LIU moved the following amendment to Mr HUI Yin-fat's motion and addressed the Council:

To delete "ensure that the quality and continuity of services be maintained" and substitute with "respect the views of organizations and workers in the sector"; and to add "and ensure that social welfare organizations will have adequate resources to sustain their development and maintain the quality of their services in future" after "the social welfare subvention system".

Question on Mr Bruce LIU's amendment to Mr HUI Yin-fat's motion proposed.

Six Members spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Mr HUI Yin-fat spoke on the amendment.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Question on Mr Bruce LIU's amendment to Mr HUI Yin-fat's motion put and agreed to.

Mr HUI Yin-fat replied.

Question on Mr HUI Yin-fat's motion as amended by Mr Bruce LIU put and agreed to.

Next meeting

The President declared that the next meeting of the Council would be held on 17 December 1997 at 2:30 pm.

The Council was adjourned at 8:25 pm.

(Mrs Rita FAN)President

Council Chamber
Hong Kong