Council meeting (Minutes) 14 Jan 98

Provisional Legislative Council

PLC Paper No. CB(3) 567

Minutes of the meeting held on Wednesday 14 January 1998 at 2:30 pm

Members present:

President
The Hon Mrs Rita FAN, JP
The Hon WONG Siu-yee
The Hon James TIEN Pei-chun, JP
The Hon David CHU Yu-lin
The Hon HO Sai-chu, JP
The Hon Edward HO Sing-tin, JP
Dr Hon Raymond HO Chung-tai, JP
The Hon NG Leung-sing
Prof Hon NG Ching-fai
The Hon Eric LI Ka-cheung, JP
Dr Hon David LI Kwok-po, JP
The Hon LEE Kai-ming
The Hon Allen LEE, JP
The Hon Mrs Elsie TU, GBM
The Hon Mrs Selina CHOW, JP
The Hon Mrs Peggy LAM, JP
The Hon Henry WU
The Hon NGAI Shiu-kit, JP
The Hon Henry TANG Ying-yen, JP
The Hon Ronald ARCULLI, JP
The Hon YUEN Mo
The Hon MA Fung-kwok
The Hon CHEUNG Hon-chung
The Hon LEUNG Chun-ying, JP
Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung, JP
The Hon Mrs Sophie LEUNG LAU Yau-fun, JP
The Hon MOK Ying-fan
The Hon HUI Yin-fat, JP
The Hon CHAN Choi-hi
The Hon CHAN Yuen-han
The Hon CHAN Wing-chan
The Hon CHAN Kam-lam
The Hon TSANG Yok-sing
The Hon CHENG Kai-nam
The Hon Frederick FUNG Kin-kee
The Hon Andrew WONG Wang-fat, JP
Dr Hon Philip WONG Yu-hong
The Hon Kennedy WONG Ying-ho
The Hon Howard YOUNG, JP
Dr Hon Charles YEUNG Chun-kam
The Hon YEUNG Yiu-chung
The Hon IP Kwok-him
The Hon CHIM Pui-chung
The Hon Bruce LIU Sing-lee
The Hon LAU Kong-wah
The Hon LAU Wong-fat, JP
The Hon Mrs Miriam LAU Kin-yee, JP
The Hon Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen, JP
The Hon CHOY Kan-pui, JP
The Hon Paul CHENG Ming-fun, JP
The Hon CHENG Yiu-tong
Dr Hon TANG Siu-tong, JP
The Hon Timothy FOK Tsun-ting
The Hon KAN Fook-yee
The Hon NGAN Kam-chuen
The Hon LO Suk-ching
The Hon TAM Yiu-chung, JP
The Hon CHOY So-yuk

Members absent:

Dr Hon Mrs TSO WONG Man-yin
Dr Hon LAW Cheung-kwok

Public officers attending:

Mr Michael SUEN Ming yeung, JP: The Chief Secretary for Administration
The Honourable Donald TSANG Yam-kuen, JP: The Financial Secretary
The Honourable Elsie LEUNG Oi-sie, JP: The Secretary for Justice
Mr CHAU Tak-hay, JP: Secretary for Broadcasting, Culture and Sport
Mr Nicholas NG Wing-fui, JP: Secretary for Transport
Mrs Katherine FOK LO Shiu ching, JP: Secretary for Health and Welfare
Mr Joseph WONG Wing-ping, JP: Secretary for Education and Manpower
Mr Peter LAI Hing ling, JP: Secretary for Security
Mr Bowen LEUNG Po wing, JP: Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands
Mr Stephen IP Shu-kwan, JP: Secretary for Economic Services
Mr David LAN Hong-tsung, JP: Secretary for Home Affairs
Mr Mr LEUNG Chin-man, JP: Secretary for Housing

Clerks in attendance:

Mr Ricky FUNG Choi-cheung, JP,: Secretary General
Ms Pauline NG Man-wah,: Assistant Secretary General (1)
Mr Ray CHAN Yum-mou,: Assistant Secretary General (3)

Papers

The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure:

Subsidiary Legislation	L.N. No.
1. Legislative Council (Formation of Election Committee) (Appeals) Regulation	1/98
2. Prisons (Amendment) Order 1998	12/98

Sessional Papers

No.64	Secretary for Home Affairs Incorporated Statement of Accounts for the year ended 31 March 1997
No.65	Lingnan College President's Report 1996 1997 and Lingnan College Financial Report for the Year ended 30 June 1997

Addresses

Mr WONG Siu-yee addressed the Council on the subsidiary legislation relating to fee increases, which was laid on the Table of the Council at the meeting on 10 December 1997.

Questions

1. Mrs Miriam LAU asked Question 1.

The Secretary for Economic Services replied.

Five Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Economic Services replied.

2. Mr CHOY Kan-pui asked Question 2.

The Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

Four Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

3. Mrs Selina CHOW asked Question 3.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

Four Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

4. Dr HO Chung-tai asked Question 4.

The Secretary for Housing replied.

Six Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Housing replied.

5. Ms CHOY So-yuk asked Question 5.

The Secretary for Security replied.

Seven Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Security replied.

6. Mr Allen LEE asked Question 6.

The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands replied.

Five Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands replied.

Written replies to Questions 7 to 20 were tabled for Members�information.

Bills

First Reading

Housing (Amendment) Bill 1998 Immigration (Amendment) Bill 1998

The Bills were read the first time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Rule 53(3) of the Rules of Procedure.

Second Reading

Housing (Amendment) Bill 1998

The Secretary for Housing moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee.

Immigration (Amendment) Bill 1998

The Secretary for Security moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee.

Mass Transit Railway Corporation (Amendment) Bill 1997

Resumption of debate on Second Reading which had been moved on 10 December 1997.

Question on Second Reading put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

Committee Stage

The Council went into Committee and considered the Mass Transit Railway Corporation (Amendment) Bill 1997.

Question that clauses 1 to 8 stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

The Council then resumed.

Third Reading

The Secretary for Transport reported that

the Mass Transit Railway Corporation (Amendment) Bill 1997 had passed through Committee without amendment. He moved that the Bill be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the Third Reading proposed, put and agreed to.

Bill read the third time and passed.

Members' Motions Review of the local pre-school education policy

Ms CHOY So-yuk moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That, in order to ensure the fulfilment of the commitments made by the Chief Executive in the Policy Address 1997 on raising the standard of local pre-school education, this Council urges the Government to adopt the following improvement measures:

to uniformize kindergartens and child care centres in terms of teacher training, teacher salary scale and teacher-to-pupil ratio, while preserving the uniqueness of these institutions, so that public resources can be more effectively allocated and used;
to improve the subsidy scheme for non-profit making kindergartens by providing direct subsidies on the basis of the ratio of qualified kindergarten teachers in a kindergarten, with a view to replacing the existing method of providing subsidies according to the number of pupils; and increase the amount of subsidy to half or more of the school fees so as to relieve parents of their burdens;
to effect actual improvements to the salary scale of pre-school education workers, raise the entry requirements for kindergarten teachers in stages and attract more people to join and to stay in the profession; and
to improve the current in-service training for pre-school education workers and provide more opportunities for pre-service training, so that more pre-school education workers can be trained and the quality of teaching will be enhanced.

Question on the motion proposed.

A Member spoke on the motion.

At 4:45 pm, the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

Another 10 Members and the Secretary for Education and Manpower spoke on the motion.

At 5:55 pm, the President resumed the chair.

Question on the motion put and agreed to.

Two-tier social security system

Mr CHAN Kam-lam moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That, as the 'Mandatory Provident Fund Scheme', to be introduced soon by the Government, will not be able to provide the people of Hong Kong with full retirement protection, this Council urges the Government to expeditiously study and put in place concrete plans for implementing an 'Old Age Pension Scheme', so as to provide full retirement protection for the working, non-working and retired people under a two-tier social security system.

Question on Mr CHAN Kam-lam's motion proposed. The President stated that Mr Allen LEE had given notice to move an amendment to the motion. She proposed that the motion and the proposed amendment be debated together in a joint debate. There being no dissenting voice, the President ordered that the motion and the proposed amendment be debated together.

Mr Allen LEE moved the following amendment to Mr CHAN Kam-lam's motion and addressed the Council:

To delete ", to be introduced soon by the Government, will not be able to provide the people of Hong Kong with full retirement protection" and substitute with "is a long-term retirement protection scheme"; and to delete "expeditiously study and put in place concrete plans for implementing an 'Old Age Pension Scheme', so as to provide full retirement protection for the working, non-working and retired people under a two-tier social security system" and substitute with "immediately increase the Comprehensive Social Security Assistance payment for the elderly to $3,100 per month, so as to meet their short-term needs and provide them with immediate livelihood protection".

Question on Mr Allen LEE's amendment to Mr CHAN Kam-lam's motion proposed.

14 Members spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Mr CHAN Kam-lam spoke on the amendment.

The Secretary for Education and Manpower and the Secretary for Health and Welfare spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Question on Mr Allen LEE's amendment to Mr CHAN Kam-lam's motion put. As the President could not judge from the voice votes whether the 'ayes' had it or the 'noes' had it, she ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that there were 12 votes for the amendment, 18 votes against it and two abstentions. (Voting record in Appendix I.) She declared that Mr Allen LEE's amendment to Mr CHAN Kam-lam's motion was negatived.

Mr CHAN Kam-lam replied.

Question on Mr CHAN Kam-lam's motion put.

Mr CHAN Kam-lam claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that there were 16 votes for the motion, 16 votes against it and no abstention. (Voting record in Appendix II.) The President stated that in line with parliamentary practice, she could only exercise the casting vote in the negative. She then exercised her casting vote in the negative and declared that Mr CHAN Kam-lam's motion was negatived.

Next meeting

The President declared that the next meeting of the Council would be held on 15 January 1998 at 3:00 pm.

The Council was adjourned at 8:14 pm.

(Mrs Rita FAN)President

Council Chamber
Hong Kong