Provisional Legislative Council

PLC Paper No. CB(3) 69

Minutes of the meeting held on Wednesday
16 July 1997 at 2:30 pm

Members present:

President
The Hon Mrs Rita FAN, JP
The Hon WONG Siu-yee
The Hon James TIEN Pei-chun, JP
The Hon David CHU Yu-lin
The Hon HO Sai-chu, JP
The Hon Edward HO Sing-tin, JP
Dr Hon Raymond HO Chung-tai, JP
The Hon NG Leung-sing
Prof Hon NG Ching-fai
The Hon Eric LI Ka-cheung, JP
The Hon LEE Kai-ming
The Hon Allen LEE, JP
The Hon Mrs Elsie TU, GBM
The Hon Mrs Selina CHOW, JP
The Hon Mrs Peggy LAM, JP
The Hon Henry WU
The Hon NGAI Shiu-kit, JP
The Hon Henry TANG Ying-yen, JP
The Hon YUEN Mo
The Hon MA Fung-kwok
The Hon CHEUNG Hon-chung
Dr Hon Mrs TSO WONG Man-yin
The Hon LEUNG Chun-ying, JP
Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung, JP
The Hon Mrs Sophie LEUNG LAU Yau-fun, JP
The Hon HUI Yin-fat, JP
The Hon CHAN Choi-hi
The Hon CHAN Yuen-han
The Hon CHAN Wing-chan
The Hon CHAN Kam-lam
The Hon TSANG Yok-sing
The Hon CHENG Kai-nam
The Hon Frederick FUNG Kin-kee
The Hon Andrew WONG Wang-fat, JP
Dr Hon Philip WONG Yu-hong
The Hon Kennedy WONG Ying-ho
The Hon Howard YOUNG, JP
Dr Hon Charles YEUNG Chun-kam
The Hon YEUNG Yiu-chung
The Hon IP Kwok-him
The Hon CHIM Pui-chung
The Hon LAU Kong-wah
The Hon LAU Wong-fat, JP
The Hon Mrs Miriam LAU Kin-yee, JP
The Hon Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen, JP
The Hon CHOY Kan-pui, JP
The Hon CHENG Yiu-tong
Dr Hon TANG Siu-tong, JP
The Hon Timothy FOK Tsun-ting
The Hon KAN Fook-yee
The Hon NGAN Kam-chuen
The Hon LO Suk-ching
Dr Hon LAW Cheung-kwok
The Hon TAM Yiu-chung, JP
The Hon CHOY So-yuk

Members absent:

Dr Hon David LI Kwok-po, JP
The Hon Ronald ARCULLI, JP
The Hon MOK Ying-fan
The Hon Bruce LIU Sing-lee
The Hon Paul CHENG Ming-fun, JP

Public officers attending:

The Honourable Mrs Anson CHAN, JP

The Chief Secretary for Administration

The Honourable Donald TSANG Yam-kuen, JP

The Financial Secretary

The Honourable Elsie LEUNG Oi-sie, JP

The Secretary for Justice

Mr Michael SUEN Ming-yeung, JP

Secretary for Home Affairs

Mr CHAU Tak-hay, JP

Secretary for Broadcasting, Culture and Sport

Mr Nicholas NG Wing-fui, JP

Secretary for Constitutional Affairs

Mrs Katherine FOK LO Shiu-ching, JP

Secretary for Health and Welfare

Mr Rafael HUI Si-yan, JP

Secretary for Financial Services

Mr Joseph WONG Wing-ping, JP

Secretary for Education and Manpower

Mr Bowen LEUNG Po-wing, JP

Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands

Miss Denise YUE Chung-yee, JP

Secretary for Trade and Industry

Mr LAM Woon-kwong, JP

Secretary for the Civil Service

Mrs Carrie YAU TSANG Ka-lai, JP

Secretary for Security

Clerks in attendance:

Mr Ricky FUNG Choi-cheung, JP,

Secretary General

Mr LAW Kam-sang, JP,

Deputy Secretary General

Mr Ray CHAN Yum-mou,

Assistant Secretary General (3)

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Swearing in

Ms CHOY So-yuk made the Affirmation of Allegiance.

Papers

The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure :

Report

Mr IP Kwok-him, Chairman of the Bills Committee, presented the Report of the Bills Committee on Legislative Provisions (Suspension of Operation) Bill 1997 and addressed the Council.

Questions

1. Mr Howard YOUNG asked Question 1.

The Secretary for Security replied.

Five Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Security replied.

2.Mr CHAN Choi-hi asked Question 2.

The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands replied.

Nine Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands replied.

3.Mr CHENG Yiu-tong asked Question 3.

The Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

Nine Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

4. Mr CHAN Wing-chan asked Question 4.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

Six Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

Written replies to Questions 5 to 11 were tabled for Members' information.

Bills

Second Reading

United Nations Sanctions Bill

Resumption of debate on Second Reading which had been moved on 9 July 1997.

The Secretary for Trade and Industry spoke on the motion.

Question on Second Reading put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

Legislative Provisions (Suspension of Operation) Bill 1997

Resumption of debate on Second Reading which had been moved on 9 July 1997.

Eight Members spoke on the motion.

At 4:43 pm, the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

Another four Members spoke on the motion.

At 5:15 pm, the President resumed the chair.

15 further Members spoke on the motion.

The Chief Secretary for Administration replied.

The President suspended the meeting at 6:59 pm.

The Council resumed at 7:03 pm.

Question on Second Reading put.

Mr K K FUNG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to proceed to a division under Rule 47(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that there were 40 votes for the motion, nine votes against it and one abstention. (Voting record in Appendix I.) She declared that the motion was carried.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

Committee Stage

The Council went into Committee and considered the following Bills:

United Nations Sanctions Bill

Question that the following clauses stand part of the Bill proposed.

Question on clauses 1 and 3 put and agreed to.

The Secretary for Trade and Industry moved an amendment to clause 2 and addressed the Committee.

Question on the amendment put and agreed to.

Question that clause 2, as amended, stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.

Legislative Provisions (Suspension of Operation) Bill 1997

Question that the following clauses stand part of the Bill proposed.

Question on clause 1 put and agreed to.

The Chairman stated that Mr IP Kwok-him and the Chief Secretary for Administration had separately given notices to propose amendments to clause 2. She proposed that the amendments to clause 2 proposed separately by Mr IP Kwok-him and the Chief Secretary for Administration be debated together in a joint debate. There being no dissenting voice, the Chairman ordered that the proposed amendments be debated together in a joint debate.

The Chairman invited Mr IP Kwok-him to move his amendment in accordance with Rule 34(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

Mr IP Kwok-him moved an amendment to clause 2 and addressed the Committee.

The Chairman invited the Chief Secretary for Administration to speak on Mr IP Kwok-him's motion as well as her own proposed amendments. She added, however, that the Chief Secretary for Administration might not move her proposed amendments unless Mr IP Kwok-him's amendment was not agreed.

The Chief Secretary for Administration spoke on the motion as well as her own amendments.

Eight Members and the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands spoke on the motion and the amendments.

Mr IP Kwok-him replied.

Question on the amendment to clause 2 moved by Mr IP Kwok-him put.

Miss CHAN Yuen-han and Mr IP Kwok-him claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to proceed to a division under Rule 47(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that there were 31 votes for the amendment, 20 votes against it and one abstention. (Voting record in Appendix II.) She declared that Mr IP Kwok-him's amendment was agreed.

Dr C H LEONG rose to move the following motion without notice:

That in the event of further divisions being claimed in respect of the remaining motions to be moved at the Committee Stage of the Legislative Provisions (Suspension of Operation) Bill 1997 at this meeting, Rule 47(4) of the Rules of Procedure be suspended so that the Chairman may order that the Committee do proceed to each of such divisions immediately after the division bell has been rung for one minute.

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

The Chairman stated that as Mr IP Kwok-him's amendment to clause 2, which dealt with deletion, had been agreed, clause 2 would therefore be deleted from the Bill and the Chief Secretary for Administration might not move her proposed amendments to clause 2.

The Chairman stated that Mr IP Kwok-him and the Chief Secretary for Administration had separately given notices to propose amendments to clause 3. She proposed that the amendments to clause 3 proposed separately by Mr IP Kwok-him and the Chief Secretary for Administration be debated together in a joint debate. There being no dissenting voice, the Chairman ordered that the proposed amendments be debated together in a joint debate.

The Chairman invited Mr IP Kwok-him to move his amendment in accordance with Rule 34(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

Mr IP Kwok-him moved an amendment to clause 3 and addressed the Committee.

The Chairman invited the Chief Secretary for Administration to speak on Mr IP Kwok-him's motion as well as her own proposed amendments. She added, however, that the Chief Secretary for Administration might not move her proposed amendments unless Mr IP Kwok-him's amendment was not agreed.

The Chief Secretary for Administration spoke on the motion as well as her own amendments.

Five Members and the Secretary for Education and Manpower spoke on the motion and the amendments.

Mr IP Kwok-him replied.

Question on the amendment to clause 3 moved by Mr IP Kwok-him put. The Chairman stated that she thought the amendment had been agreed.

Mr Andrew WONG claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to proceed to a division under Rule 49(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that there were 25 votes for the amendment, 20 votes against it and four abstentions. (Voting record in Appendix III.) She declared that Mr IP Kwok-him's amendment was agreed.

The Chief Secretary for Administration moved an amendment to clause 4 and addressed the Committee.

At 9:10 pm, the Chairman's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the Chairman.

Three Members and the Secretary for Home Affairs spoke on the amendment.

Question on the amendment put. As the Chairman's Deputy could not judge from the voice votes whether the "ayes" had it or the "noes" had it, he ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman's Deputy announced that there were 35 votes for the amendment, eight votes against it and no abstention. (Voting record in Appendix IV.) He declared that the Chief Secretary for Administration's amendment was agreed.

Question that clause 4, as amended, stand part of the Bill put. The Chairman's Duputy stated that he thought the motion had been agreed.

Mr Andrew WONG claimed a division. The Chairman's Deputy then ordered the Committee to proceed to a division under Rule 49(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman's Deputy announced that there were 39 votes for the motion, seven votes against it and no abstention. (Voting record in Appendix V.) He declared that the motion was carried.

The Chief Secretary for Administration moved an amendment to clause 5 and addressed the Committee.

Eight Members and the Secretary for Education and Manpower spoke on the amendment.

At 9:50 pm, the Chairman resumed the chair.

Question on the amendment put. The Chairman stated that she thought the amendment had been agreed.

Mr K K FUNG claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to proceed to a division under Rule 49(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that there were 39 votes for the amendment, four votes against it and one abstention. (Voting record in Appendix VI.) She declared that the amendment was agreed.

Question that clause 5, as amended, stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.

The Chief Secretary for Administration moved an amendment to clause 6 and addressed the Committee.

A Member and the Secretary for Education and Manpower spoke on the amendment.

Question on the amendment put. The Chairman stated that she thought the amendment had been agreed.

Mr K K FUNG claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to proceed to a division under Rule 49(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that there were 39 votes for the amendment, four votes against it and one abstention. (Voting record in Appendix VII.) She declared that the amendment was agreed.

Question that clause 6, as amended, stand part of the Bill put. The Chairman stated that she thought the motion had been agreed.

Mr Andrew WONG claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to proceed to a division under Rule 49(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that there were 39 votes for the motion, six votes against it and no abstention. (Voting record in Appendix VIII.) She declared that the motion was carried.

The Chief Secretary for Administration moved amendments to clause 7 and addressed the Committee.

Four Members and the Secretary for Education and Manpower spoke on the amendments.

The Chairman suspended the Committee at 10:35 pm.

The Committee resumed at 10:55 pm.

Question on the Chief Secretary for Administration's amendments put. The Chairman stated that she thought the amendments had been agreed.

Miss CHAN Yuen-han claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to proceed to a division under Rule 49(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that there were 27 votes for the amendments, 15 votes against them and four abstentions. (Voting record in Appendix IX.) She declared that the amendments were agreed.

Question that clause 7, as amended, stand part of the Bill put.

Mr CHENG Kai-nam claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to proceed to a division under Rule 49(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that there were 27 votes for the motion, 19 votes against it and two abstentions. (Voting record in Appendix X.) She declared that the motion was carried.

The President ordered the Council to resume and granted leave to the Chief Secretary for Administration to move a motion under Rule 89 of the Rules of Procedure that Rule 58(5) be suspended to enable the Committee of the whole Council to consider the proposed new clause 7A ahead of clause 8 of the Bill.

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

The Council went into Committee.

New clause 7A read the first time.

The Chief Secretary for Administration moved the Second Reading of new clause 7A.

Question on the Second Reading of new clause 7A proposed, put and negatived.

The Chairman ordered that the related paragraphs (a), (b) and (g) in clause 8 be deleted from the Bill in the light of the decisions already taken by the Committee.

Question that clause 8, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

The Council then resumed.

Third Reading

The Secretary for Trade and Industry reported that

the United Nations Sanctions Bill

had passed through Committee with amendment. She moved that the Bill be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the Third Reading proposed, put and agreed to.

Bill read the third time and passed.

The Chief Secretary for Administration reported that

the Legislative Provisions (Suspension of Operation) Bill 1997

had passed through Committee with amendments. She moved that the Bill be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the Third Reading proposed and put. The President stated that she thought the motion had been agreed.

Mr K K FUNG and Miss CHAN Yuen-han claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to proceed to a division under Rule 47(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that there were 38 votes for the motion, nine votes against it and one abstention. (Voting record in Appendix XI.) She declared that the motion was carried.

Members' Motions

Amendments to the Rules of Procedure of the Provisional Legislative Council of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region

Mrs Selina CHOW moved the motion in Appendix XII and addressed the Council.

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

Formation of Panels

Mrs Selina CHOW moved the motion in Appendix XIII and addressed the Council.

Question on the motion proposed.

A Member spoke on the motion.

Question on the motion put and agreed to.

The President announced that Mr NGAN Kam-chuen had given notice to withdraw his motion on "Reduction of rates percentage charge".

Resolving the problems left by the British Hong Kong Government which affect the livelihood of the populace

Miss CHAN Yuen-han moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That this Council urges Mr TUNG Chee-hwa, the Chief Executive of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, to honour the pledges made at his election campaign by formulating fair and reasonable policies so that those problems left behind by the British Hong Kong Government which affect the livelihood of the populace, in areas such as housing, employment, retirement protection, education and disparity between the rich and the poor in society, could be resolved in earnest.

Question on Miss CHAN Yuen-han's motion proposed. The President stated that Mr KAN Fook-yee had given notice to move an amendment to the motion. She proposed that the motion and the proposed amendment be debated together in a joint debate. There being no dissenting voice, the President ordered that the motion and the proposed amendment be debated together in a joint debate.

Mr KAN Fook-yee moved the following amendment to Miss CHAN Yuen-han's motion and addressed the Council:

To delete "honour the pledges made at his election campaign by formulating" and substitute with "formulate"; to delete "the livelihood of" before "the populace"; to delete "in areas such as" and substitute with "that is, those involving"; to add "labour relations and" before "education"; and to delete "and disparity between the rich and the poor in society".

Question on Mr KAN Fook-yee's amendment to Miss CHAN Yuen-han's motion proposed.

Nine Members spoke on the motion and the amendment.

At 12:15 am, the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

Another three Members spoke on the motion and the amendment.

At 12:35 am, the President resumed the chair.

Three further Members spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Miss CHAN Yuen-han spoke on the amendment.

The Chief Secretary for Administration spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Question on Mr KAN Fook-yee's amendment to Miss CHAN Yuen-han's motion put.

Miss CHAN Yuen-han claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that there were nine votes for the amendment, 22 votes against it and no abstention. (Voting record in Appendix XIV.) She declared that Mr KAN Fook-yee's amendment to Miss CHAN Yuen-han's motion was negatived.

Miss CHAN Yuen-han replied.

Question on Miss CHAN Yuen-han's original motion put and agreed to.

Next meeting

The President declared that the next meeting of the Council would be held on 23 July 1997 at 2:30 pm.

The meeting was adjourned at 1:16 am on 17 July 1997.

(Mrs Rita FAN)
President
Council Chamber
Hong Kong