Council meeting (Minutes) 19 Nov 97

Provisional Legislative Council

PLC Paper No. CB(3) 371

Minutes of the meeting held on Wednesday 19 November 1997 at 2:30 pm

Members present:

President
The Hon Mrs Rita FAN, JP
The Hon WONG Siu-yee
The Hon James TIEN Pei-chun, JP
The Hon David CHU Yu-lin
The Hon HO Sai-chu, JP
The Hon Edward HO Sing-tin, JP
Dr Hon Raymond HO Chung-tai, JP
The Hon NG Leung-sing
Prof Hon NG Ching-fai
The Hon Eric LI Ka-cheung, JP
The Hon LEE Kai-ming
The Hon Allen LEE, JP
The Hon Mrs Elsie TU, GBM
The Hon Mrs Selina CHOW, JP
The Hon Mrs Peggy LAM, JP
The Hon Henry WU
The Hon NGAI Shiu-kit, JP
The Hon Henry TANG Ying-yen, JP
The Hon Ronald ARCULLI, JP
The Hon YUEN Mo
The Hon MA Fung-kwok
The Hon CHEUNG Hon-chung
Dr Hon Mrs TSO WONG Man-yin
Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung, JP
The Hon Mrs Sophie LEUNG LAU Yau-fun, JP
The Hon MOK Ying-fan
The Hon CHAN Choi-hi
The Hon CHAN Yuen-han
The Hon CHAN Wing-chan
The Hon CHAN Kam-lam
The Hon TSANG Yok-sing
The Hon CHENG Kai-nam
The Hon Frederick FUNG Kin-kee
The Hon Andrew WONG Wang-fat, JP
Dr Hon Philip WONG Yu-hong
The Hon Kennedy WONG Ying-ho
Dr Hon Charles YEUNG Chun-kam
The Hon YEUNG Yiu-chung
The Hon IP Kwok-him
The Hon CHIM Pui-chung
The Hon Bruce LIU Sing-lee
The Hon LAU Kong-wah
The Hon LAU Wong-fat, JP The Hon Mrs Miriam LAU Kin-yee, JP
The Hon Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen, JP
The Hon CHOY Kan-pui, JP
The Hon Paul CHENG Ming-fun, JP
The Hon CHENG Yiu-tong
The Hon Timothy FOK Tsun-ting
The Hon KAN Fook-yee
The Hon NGAN Kam-chuen
The Hon LO Suk-ching
Dr Hon LAW Cheung-kwok
The Hon TAM Yiu-chung, JP
The Hon CHOY So-yuk

Members absent:

Dr Hon David LI Kwok-po, JP
The Hon LEUNG Chun-ying, JP
The Hon HUI Yin-fat, JP
The Hon Howard YOUNG, JP
Dr Hon TANG Siu-tong, JP

Public officers attending:

The Honourable Mrs Anson CHAN, JP: The Chief Secretary for Administration
The Honourable Donald TSANG Yam-kuen, JP: The Financial Secretary
The Honourable Elsie LEUNG Oi-sie, JP: The Secretary for Justice
Mr Michael SUEN Ming-yeung, JP: Secretary for Constitutional Affairs
Mr CHAU Tak-hay, JP: Secretary for Broadcasting, Culture and Sport
Mr Nicholas NG Wing-fui, JP: Secretary for Transport
Mr Joseph WONG Wing-ping, JP: Secretary for Education and Manpower
Mr Peter LAI Hing-ling, JP: Secretary for Security
Mr Bowen LEUNG Po-wing, JP: Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands
Mr KWONG Ki-chi, JP: Secretary for the Treasury
Mr David LAN Hong-tsung, JP: Secretary for Home Affairs

Clerks in attendance:

Mr Ricky FUNG Choi-cheung, JP,: Secretary General
Mr LAW Kam-sang, JP,: Deputy Secretary General
Mrs Justina LAM CHENG Bo-ling,: Assistant Secretary General (2)

Papers

The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure:

Subsidiary Legislation	L.N. No.
1. Declaration of Constituencies (Legislative Council) Order 1997	535/97
2. Immigration Service (Treatment of Detained Persons) Order	536/97
3. Immigration Service (Designated Places) (Amendment) Order 1997	537/97
4. Immigration (Places of Detention) (Amendment) (No.2) Order 1997	538/97
5. Practising Certificate (Solicitors) (Amendment) (No.2) Rules 1997	539/97
6. Fugitive Offenders (India) Order (L.N. 450 of 1997) (Commencement) Notice 1997	540/97

Sessional Papers

No.36-	Report of the Director of Audit on the Accounts of the Hong Kong Government for the year ended 31 March 1997
No.37-	Report of the Director of Audit on the results of value for money audits - October 1997 Director of Audit's Report No.29
No.38-	Annual Report of the Director of Accounting Services and the Accounts of the Government for the year ended 31 March 1997
No.39-	Report of the Electoral Affairs Commission on the Delineation of Geographical Constituencies in respect of the General Election of the Legislative Council to be held in May 1998

Report

Mr Eric LI, Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, presented the Report of the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee.

Questions

The President announced that the House Committee had agreed that question time should not exceed one and a half hours. She hoped that Members would cooperate by asking concise questions and only a supplementary question at a time, avoiding unnecessary introductory remarks.

1.Mr NGAI Shiu-kit asked Question 1.

The Secretary for Home Affairs replied.

Three Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Home Affairs replied.

2. Dr C H LEONG asked Question 2.

The Secretary for Broadcasting, Culture and Sport replied.

Four Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Broadcasting, Culture and Sport replied.

3. Mrs Peggy LAM asked Question 3.

The Secretary for Home Affairs replied.

Five Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Home Affairs replied.

4. Mr LAU Kong-wah asked Question 4.

The Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

Two Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Security replied.

5. Mr YEUNG Yiu-chung asked Question 5.

The Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

Two Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

Written replies to Questions 6 to 19 were tabled for Members' information.

Motions

Cross-Harbour Tunnel Ordinance

The Secretary for Transport moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Cross-Harbour Tunnel (Amendment) Bylaw 1997, made by The Cross-Harbour Tunnel Company, Limited on 6 October 1997, be approved.

Question on the motion proposed.

A Member spoke on the motion.

Question on the motion put and agreed to.

Eastern Harbour Crossing Ordinance

The Secretary for Transport moved the following motion:

That the Eastern Harbour Crossing Road Tunnel (Amendment) Bylaw 1997, made by the New Hong Kong Tunnel Company Limited on 22 October 1997, be approved.

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

Tate's Cairn Tunnel Ordinance

The Secretary for Transport moved the following motion:

That the Tate's Cairn Tunnel (Amendment) Bylaw 1997, made by the Tate's Cairn Tunnel Company Limited on 14 October 1997, be approved.

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

Western Harbour Crossing Ordinance

The Secretary for Transport moved the following motion:

That the Western Harbour Crossing (Amendment) Bylaw 1997, made by the Western Harbour Tunnel Company Limited on 6 October 1997, be approved.

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

Trading Funds Ordinance

The Secretary for the Treasury moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That -

on the recommendation of the Financial Secretary, the Sewage Services Trading Fund ("the trading fund") shall be closed at the end of the day on 31 March 1998;
on the closure of the trading fund -
1. all money whether from operating revenue or from cash assets shall be part of the Capital Investment Fund;
2. all liabilities shall be assumed by the Government;
3. all other assets shall be transferred back to and form part of the property of the Government.

Question on the motion proposed.

Five Members spoke on the motion.

The Secretary for the Treasury replied.

Question on the motion put and agreed to.

Members' Motions

Concern for environmental problems in Hong Kong

Dr Mrs TSO WONG Man-yin moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That, as the environmental pollution problems in Hong Kong have become increasingly serious in recent years, this Council urges the Government to:

adopt effective measures to ensure that the various environmental protection programmes will not be delayed, so as to safeguard public health;
set up an incentive mechanism to facilitate the development and introduction of cost-effective environmental protection technologies;
extensively consult the public and expeditiously formulate long-term, concrete and progressive environmental protection strategies, so as to ensure that a balance is struck between economic development and environmental protection; and
enhance the function and transparency of the Hong Kong/Guangdong Environmental Protection Liaison Group and promote co-operation with the Mainland in cross-region environmental protection programmes relating to waste disposal, water and air quality, etc.

Question on the motion proposed.

Six Members spoke on the motion.

At 4:50 pm, the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

Another six Members and the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands spoke on the motion.

At 5:40 pm, the President resumed the chair.

Dr Mrs TSO WONG Man-yin replied.

Question on the motion put and agreed to.

Increase of bus fares

Mr CHEUNG Hon-chung moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That, in the absence of justifications for the fare increase applications made by the China Motor Bus Company Limited, the Kowloon Motor Bus Company (1933) Limited and the Citybus Limited, this Council urges the Government to veto the fare increase applications of these three bus companies.

Question on Mr CHEUNG Hon-chung's motion proposed. The President stated that Dr HO Chung-tai had given notice to move an amendment to the motion. She proposed that the motion and the proposed amendment be debated together in a joint debate. There being no dissenting voice, the President ordered that the motion and the proposed amendment be debated together.

Dr HO Chung-tai moved the following amendment to Mr CHEUNG Hon-chung's motion and addressed the Council:

To delete "the absence of justifications for" after "That, in" and substitute with "order to properly resolve the opposing views arising from"; and to delete "veto the fare increase applications of these three bus companies" and substitute with "expeditiously set up a mechanism to ensure that future fare increase applications can meet the interests of all parties".

Question on Dr HO Chung-tai's amendment to Mr CHEUNG Hon-chung's motion proposed.

10 Members spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Mr CHEUNG Hon-chung spoke on the amendment.

The Secretary for Transport spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Question on Dr HO Chung-tai's amendment to Mr CHEUNG Hon-chung's motion put. The President said that she thought the amendment had been agreed.

Mr CHEUNG Hon-chung claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that there were 29 votes for the amendment, 15 votes against it and one abstention. (Voting record in the Appendix.) She declared that Dr HO Chung-tai's amendment to Mr CHEUNG Hon-chung's motion was agreed.

Mr CHEUNG Hon-chung replied.

Question on Mr CHEUNG Hon-chung's motion as amended by Dr HO Chung-tai put and agreed to.

Next meeting

The President declared that the next meeting of the Council would be held on 26 November 1997 at 2:30 pm.

The Council was adjourned at 7:30 pm.

(Mrs Rita FAN)President

Council Chamber
Hong Kong