PLC Paper No. CB(3) 286

PROVISIONAL LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
MINUTES
No. 24

Minutes of the meeting held on Wednesday 22 October 1997 and Thursday 23 October 1997 at 2:30 pm respectively

Members present: President
The Hon Mrs Rita FAN, JP
The Hon WONG Siu-yee
The Hon James TIEN Pei-chun, JP (absent on 23.10.97)
The Hon David CHU Yu-lin (absent on 22.10.97)
The Hon HO Sai-chu, JP
The Hon Edward HO Sing-tin, JP
Dr Hon Raymond HO Chung-tai, JP
The Hon NG Leung-sing
Prof Hon NG Ching-fai
The Hon Eric LI Ka-cheung, JP
Dr Hon David LI Kwok-po, JP
The Hon LEE Kai-ming
The Hon Allen LEE, JP
The Hon Mrs Elsie TU, GBM
The Hon Mrs Selina CHOW, JP
The Hon Mrs Peggy LAM, JP (absent on 23.10.97)
The Hon Henry WU
The Hon NGAI Shiu-kit, JP (absent on 23.10.97)
The Hon Henry TANG Ying-yen, JP
The Hon Ronald ARCULLI, JP
The Hon YUEN Mo
The Hon MA Fung-kwok
The Hon CHEUNG Hon-chung (absent on 22.10.97)
Dr Hon Mrs TSO WONG Man-yin
The Hon LEUNG Chun-ying, JP (absent on 23.10.97)
Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung, JP
The Hon Mrs Sophie LEUNG LAU Yau-fun, JP
The Hon MOK Ying-fan
The Hon CHAN Choi-hi
The Hon CHAN Yuen-han
The Hon CHAN Wing-chan
The Hon CHAN Kam-lam
The Hon TSANG Yok-sing
The Hon CHENG Kai-nam (absent on 23.10.97)
The Hon Frederick FUNG Kin-kee
The Hon Andrew WONG Wang-fat, JP
Dr Hon Philip WONG Yu-hong (absent on 23.10.97)
The Hon Kennedy WONG Ying-ho (absent on 23.10.97)
The Hon Howard YOUNG, JP
Dr Hon Charles YEUNG Chun-kam
The Hon YEUNG Yiu-chung
The Hon IP Kwok-him
The Hon CHIM Pui-chung
The Hon Bruce LIU Sing-lee
The Hon LAU Kong-wah
The Hon LAU Wong-fat, JP (absent on 23.10.97)
The Hon Mrs Miriam LAU Kin-yee, JP
The Hon Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen, JP
The Hon CHOY Kan-pui, JP
The Hon CHENG Yiu-tong
Dr Hon TANG Siu-tong, JP
The Hon KAN Fook-yee
The Hon NGAN Kam-chuen (absent on 23.10.97)
The Hon LO Suk-ching
Dr Hon LAW Cheung-kwok
The Hon TAM Yiu-chung, JP
The Hon CHOY So-yuk

Members absent:
The Hon Paul CHENG Ming-fun, JP
The Hon Timothy FOK Tsun-ting

Public officers attending:
on 22.10.1997 and 23.10.1997

The Honourable Mrs Anson CHAN, JP

The Chief Secretary for Administration

Mr Dominic WONG Shing-wah, JP

Secretary for Housing

on 22.10.1997

The Honourable Donald TSANG Yam-kuen, JP

The Financial Secretary

The Honourable Elsie LEUNG Oi-sie, JP

The Secretary for Justice

Mr Michael SUEN Ming yeung, JP

Secretary for Constitutional Affairs

Mr Nicholas NG Wing-fui, JP

Secretary for Transport

Mrs Katherine FOK LO Shiu ching, JP

Secretary for Health and Welfare

Mr Rafael HUI Si-yan, JP

Secretary for Financial Services

Mr Joseph WONG Wing-ping, JP

Secretary for Education and Manpower

Mr Bowen LEUNG Po wing, JP

Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands

Mr KWONG Ki chi, JP

Secretary for the Treasury

Mr David LAN Hong-tsung, JP

Secretary for Home Affairs

Mr LAM Woon-kwong, JP

Secretary for the Civil Service

Mr LEE Shing-see, JP

Secretary for Works

Mr Leo KWAN Wing-wah, JP

Secretary for Economic Services

Mr Raymond WONG Hung-chiu, JP

Secretary for Security

on 23.10.1997

Mr CHAU Tak-hay, JP

Secretary for Broadcasting, Culture and Sport

Mr KWONG Hon-sang, JP

Secretary for Works

Mr TAM Wing-pong, JP

Secretary for Trade and Industry

Clerks in attendance:
on 22.10.1997 and 23.10.1997

Mr Ricky FUNG Choi-cheung, JP

Secretary General

on 22.10.1997

Mr LAW Kam-sang, JP

Deputy Secretary General

Mrs Justina LAM CHENG Bo-ling

Assistant Secretary General (2)

Mr Ray CHAN Yum-mou

Assistant Secretary General (3)

on 23.10.1997

Ms Pauline NG Man-wah

Assistant Secretary General (1)

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Papers
The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure:

Sessional Papers

Mr Ronald Arculli addressed the Council on the Building (Administration) (Amendment) (No.2) Regulation 1997 which had been laid on the Table of the Council on 27 September 1997.

Questions

Written replies to Questions 1 to 20 were tabled for Members�information.

Members' Motions
Motion of Thanks

The President recapitulated the following 3 points concerning the procedure for debating the motion, which had been circularized to Members:

1. to enable Members to know the terms of any proposed amendments, any Member who intended to move an amendment should pass the amendment to the Clerk as soon as possible, so that the Secretariat could prepare and print the proposed amendment for Members' consideration;
2. when an amendment had been moved, a Member speaking on the amendment might not move an amendment to it, unless it was of a purely technical nature; and
3. after a vote had been taken on an amendment, depending on the result, the Council would continue with the debate on the original motion or on the motion as amended. Members who had not spoken on the original motion, or the motion as had been amended, might speak, even if they had spoken earlier on an amendment.

Dr C H LEONG moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That this Council thanks the Chief Executive for his address.

Question on the motion proposed.

Six Members spoke on the motion.

In response to Mr K K FUNG's request, the President granted leave for him to revise the terms of his original proposed amendment which had been circularized to Members, as the revision would not alter the substance of the proposed amendment.

Mr K K FUNG moved the following amendment to Dr C H LEONG's motion and addressed the Council:

To add the following after "for his address":

"but deeply regrets that the address fails:

1. to formulate and implement an effective policy to eliminate poverty;

2. to increase with immediate effect the Comprehensive Social Security Assistance payment to the elderly by not less than $300 a month;

3. to safeguard the employment right of local workers, but intends to increase the importation of foreign workers;

4. to provide effective measures to combat speculation on private properties; and

5. to propose specific arrangements to put into effect the election of the Chief Executive and all Members of the Legislative Council by direct election."

The President stated that on 9 July 1997 and at the previous Council meeting, the Council had debated in detail the motions moved by Mr CHAN Choi-hi respectively on Comprehensive Social Security Assistance payment to the elderly and on speeding up the pace of democratization in Hong Kong. She hoped that in debating Mr K K FUNG's amendment, Members would avoid, as far as possible, repeating the speeches they had made at the two said motion debates, since their speeches had already been placed on record.

The President further said that although the amendment by Mr FUNG related to the subject matters of the above motion debates, she ruled that it was in order because Mr FUNG sought to convey his deep regrets that the policy address had failed in five aspects. The amendment was not seeking to ask the Council to repeat debating the same subject matters.

Question on the amendment proposed.

Two Members spoke on the amendment.

In response to a point of order raised by a Member, the President ruled that if any proposed amendment was agreed, the motion as amended by the amendment would still incorporate the original motion. Therefore, debating the motion as amended by that amendment would not limit the scope of Members' debate.

Another Member spoke on the amendment.

Question on Mr K K FUNG's amendment to Dr C H LEONG's motion put.

Mr Bruce LIU claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that there were five votes for the amendment, 40 votes against it and two abstentions. (Voting record in the Appendix.) She declared that Mr K K FUNG's amendment to Dr C H LEONG's motion was negatived.

The President stated that as Mr FUNG's amendment had been negatived, the Council would continue to debate Dr C H LEONG's original motion.

11 Members spoke on the motion.

At 6:30 pm, the President Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

A Member drew the attention of the President's Deputy to the absence of a quorum. The President's Deputy directed that Members be summoned. A quorum was then present.

Another five Members spoke on the motion.

At 7:35 pm, the President resumed the chair.

11 more Members spoke on the motion.

The President suspended the meeting at 10:01 pm.

The Council resumed on 23 October 1997 and continued to debate the Motion of Thanks moved by Dr C H LEONG.

21 Members spoke on the motion.

Dr C H LEONG moved that the debate be adjourned.

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

Next meeting

The President declared that the next meeting of the Council would be held on 29 October 1997 at 2:30 pm.

The Council was adjourned at 6:55 pm.

Mrs Rita FAN)President
Council Chamber
Hong Kong

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