LC Paper No. CB(3) 1599/98-99

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

MINUTES
No. 34
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Minutes of the meeting held on Wednesday 5 May 1999 at 2:30 pm
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Members present:

President
The Hon Mrs Rita FAN, GBS, JP

The Hon Kenneth TING Woo-shou, JP
The Hon James TIEN Pei-chun, JP
The Hon David CHU Yu-lin
The Hon HO Sai-chu, JP
The Hon Cyd HO Sau-lan
The Hon Edward HO Sing-tin, JP
The Hon Albert HO Chun-yan
The Hon Michael HO Mun-ka
Dr the Hon Raymond HO Chung-tai, JP
The Hon LEE Wing-tat
The Hon LEE Cheuk-yan
The Hon Martin LEE Chu-ming, SC, JP
The Hon Eric LI Ka-cheung, JP
The Hon LEE Kai-ming, JP
Dr the Hon David LI Kwok-po, JP
The Hon Fred LI Wah-ming
Dr the Hon LUI Ming-wah, JP
The Hon NG Leung-sing
Prof the Hon NG Ching-fai
The Hon Margaret NG
The Hon Mrs Selina CHOW LIANG Shuk-yee, JP
The Hon Ronald ARCULLI, JP
The Hon MA Fung-kwok
The Hon James TO Kun-sun
The Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong
The Hon Ambrose CHEUNG Wing-sum, JP
The Hon HUI Cheung-ching
The Hon Christine LOH
The Hon CHAN Kwok-keung
The Hon CHAN Yuen-han
The Hon Bernard CHAN
The Hon CHAN Wing-chan
The Hon CHAN Kam-lam
Dr the Hon LEONG Che-hung, JP
The Hon Mrs Sophie LEUNG LAU Yau-fun, JP
The Hon LEUNG Yiu-chung
The Hon Gary CHENG Kai-nam
The Hon SIN Chung-kai
The Hon Andrew WONG Wang-fat, JP
Dr the Hon Philip WONG Yu-hong
The Hon WONG Yung-kan
The Hon Jasper TSANG Yok-sing, JP
The Hon Howard YOUNG, JP
Dr the Hon YEUNG Sum
The Hon YEUNG Yiu-chung
The Hon LAU Kong-wah
The Hon LAU Wong-fat, GBS, JP
The Hon Mrs Miriam LAU Kin-yee, JP
The Hon Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen, JP
The Hon Emily LAU Wai-hing, JP
The Hon CHOY So-yuk
The Hon Andrew CHENG Kar-foo
The Hon SZETO Wah
The Hon Timothy FOK Tsun-ting, JP
The Hon LAW Chi-kwong, JP
The Hon TAM Yiu-chung, JP
The Hon FUNG Chi-kin
Dr the Hon TANG Siu-tong, JP

Member absent:

The Hon LAU Chin-shek, JP

Public officers attending:

Mr Michael SUEN Ming-yeung, JP
The Chief Secretary for Administration

Mr Rafael HUI Si-yan, GBS, JP
The Financial Secretary

The Honourable Elsie LEUNG Oi-sie, JP
The Secretary for Justice

Mrs Katherine FOK LO Shiu-ching, JP
Secretary for Health and Welfare

Mr Joseph WONG Wing-ping, GBS, JP
Secretary for Education and Manpower

Miss Denise YUE Chung-yee, JP
Secretary for the Treasury

Mr LAM Woon-kwong, JP
Secretary for the Civil Service

Mrs Regina IP LAU Suk-yee, JP
Secretary for Security

Miss Yvonne CHOI Ying-pik, JP
Secretary for Trade and Industry

Mrs Rebecca LAI KO Wing-yee, JP
Secretary for Financial Services
Clerks in attendance:
Mr Ricky FUNG Choi-cheung, JP,
Secretary General

Mrs Justina LAM CHENG Bo-ling,
Assistant Secretary General (2)

Mr Ray CHAN Yum-mou,
Assistant Secretary General (3)
Papers

The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure:

Subsidiary LegislationL.N. No.
1.Waterworks (Amendment) Regulation 1999106/99
2.Child Abduction and Custody (Parties to Convention) (Amendment) Order 1999108/99
3.Official Languages (Alteration of Text Under Section 4D) Order 1999109/99
4.Employees Retraining Ordinance (Amendment of Schedule 2) (No.3) Notice 1999110/99
5.Tax Reserve Certificates (Rate of Interest) (No. 3) Notice 1999111/99
6.Banking Ordinance (Amendment of Schedule) Notice 1999112/99

Sessional Papers

No. 124-Vocational Training Council
Annual Report 1997/1998

No. 125-The Government Minute in response to the Report No. 30 of the Public Accounts Committee dated February 1999

No. 126-The Government Minute in response to the Report No. 31 of the Public Accounts Committee dated February 1999


Addresses

The Chief Secretary for Administration addressed the Council on the Government Minutes in response to the Reports No. 30 and 31 of the Public Accounts Committee dated February 1999.

Hon Margaret NG, Hon LEE Cheuk-yan, Hon Albert HO and the Secretary for the Treasury addressed the Council separately on the Public Revenue Protection (Revenue) Order 1999, which was subsidiary legislation laid on the Table of the Council on 31 March 1999.

Questions

1. Hon LEE Wing-tat asked Question 1.

The Secretary for Security replied.

Eight Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Security replied.

2. Hon LEE Cheuk-yan asked Question 2.

The Secretary for the Civil Service replied.

Seven Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for the Civil Service replied.

3. Hon CHAN Wing-chan asked Question 3.

The Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

Eight Members asked supplementaries. The Secretary for Education and Manpower and the Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

4. Hon MA Fung-kwok asked Question 4.

The Secretary for Trade and Industry replied.

Six Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Trade and Industry replied.

5. Hon YEUNG Yiu-chung asked Question 5.

The Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

Five Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

6. Hon CHAN Yuen-han asked Question 6.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

Five Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

Written replies to Questions 7 to 20 were tabled for Members' information.

Bills

First Reading

Adaptation of Laws (No.11) Bill 1999
Trade Marks Bill

The Bills were read the first time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Rule 53(3) of the Rules of Procedure.

Second Reading

Adaptation of Laws (No.11) Bill 1999
Trade Marks Bill

The Secretary for Trade and Industry moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council on each of the above two Bills.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debates on the above Bills were adjourned and the Bills were referred to the House Committee.

Members' Motions

Consultancy Report on Health Care Financing

Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That this Council urges the people of Hong Kong to respond positively to the report, "Improving Hong Kong's Health Care System: Why and For Whom?", so as to push a reform of our health care policies and structure that can be sustained in the next century; assure affordable, accessible and equitable quality care for the public; and build up Hong Kong as a healthy community.

Question on Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung's motion proposed. The President stated that Hon Michael HO would move an amendment to the motion and that Hon CHAN Yuen-han would also move an amendment to Hon Michael HO's proposed amendment. In accordance with the Rules of Procedure, the motion, the amendment and the amendment to the amendment would be debated together in a joint debate.

Hon Michael HO moved the following amendment to Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung's motion and addressed the Council:

To delete "the people of Hong Kong to respond positively to the report, "Improving Hong Kong's Health Care System: Why and For Whom?"," after "That this Council urges" and substitute with "the Government to thoroughly review and overhaul Hong Kong's public and private health care policies, their structures and modes of service delivery, including: (a) establishing an independent complaints office with adequate public participation; (b) establishing a mechanism for public participation in quality audit, so as to ensure the quality of services provided by public and private hospitals; (c) reviewing the structure and monitoring systems of the Hospital Authority with a view to enhancing its accountability to the public; and (d) reviewing the role of the Department of Health and strengthening its work on health promotion and disease prevention, in order to enhance the public's knowledge in hygiene and health care,"; to add 弌t the same time, the Government should consider developing a long term health care financing system" after "so as to push a reform of our health care policies and structure that can be sustained in the next century;"; to add ", discard the present professional-led mode of practice, provide the public with the right to choose the service providers freely" after "to assure affordable, accessible and equitable quality care for the public"; and to add "; furthermore, upon the expiry of the consultation period of the consultancy report, "Improving Hong Kong's Health Care System: Why and For Whom?", the Government should conduct specific consultation on the above recommendations; this Council also urges the people of Hong Kong to respond positively to the report" after "and build up Hong Kong as a healthy community".

Question on Hon Michael HO's amendment to Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung's motion proposed.

Hon CHAN Yuen-han moved the following amendment to Hon Michael HO's proposed amendment and addressed the Council:

To delete "office" from "establishing an independent complaints office with adequate public participation" and substitute with "committee"; to delete "ensure" from "so as to ensure the quality of services provided by public and private hospitals" and substitute with "monitor"; to add "and cost-effectiveness" after "reviewing the structure and monitoring systems of the Hospital Authority with a view to enhancing its accountability to the public"; to delete "and" from "with a view to enhancing its accountability to the public; and"; to add "," after "reviewing the role of the Department of Health"; to delete "and" from "and strengthening its work on health promotion and disease prevention,"; to insert "and supervising" before "its work on health promotion and disease prevention,"; and to add "; (e) reviewing and establishing the proper role and position of the public health care system; (f) granting tax allowance for contribution to private medical insurance; and (g) examining the feasibility of promoting a network of family doctors" after n order to enhance the public's knowledge in hygiene and health care".

Question on Hon CHAN Yuen-han's amendment to Hon Michael HO's amendment proposed.

22 Members spoke on the motion and the amendments.

Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung spoke on the amendments.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare spoke on the motion and the amendments.

Question on Hon CHAN Yuen-han's amendment to Hon Michael HO's amendment put.

The President ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 25 were present, five were in favour of the amendment and 20 against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 28 were present, eight were in favour of the amendment, 17 against it and two abstained. (Voting record in Appendix I.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that Hon CHAN Yuen-han's amendment to Hon Michael HO's amendment was negatived.

Question on Hon Michael HO's amendment to Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung's motion put.

Hon Michael HO claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 25 were present, eight were in favour of the amendment, 16 against it and one abstained; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 28 were present, 19 were in favour of the amendment and eight against it. (Voting record in Appendix II.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that Hon Michael HO's amendment to Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung's motion was negatived.

Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung replied.

Question on Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung's original motion put and agreed to.

Reforming the securities and futures markets

Hon Ambrose LAU moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That this Council urges that in promoting reforms of the securities and futures markets, the Government must be impartial and open-minded, face up to the worries of the industry, encourage the industry to participate in discussions on the reforms, seek consensus among various sectors of the community, promote the steady development of the financial market, as well as create a favourable investment environment and more opportunities for investors in the future new Exchange; furthermore, in keeping with the trends in the international financial markets, the Government should also formulate comprehensive and long-term development strategies with a view to enhancing the competitiveness of Hong Kong's financial services industry internationally.

At 8:17 pm, the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

Question on Hon Ambrose LAU's motion proposed.

The President's Deputy stated that Hon SIN Chung-kai would move an amendment to the motion. In accordance with the Rules of Procedure, the motion and the amendment would be debated together in a joint debate.

Hon SIN Chung-kai moved the following amendment to Hon Ambrose LAU's motion and addressed the Council:

To add "supports the merging, demutualization and listing of the exchanges and clearing houses in order to enable Hong Kong's financial market to operate more effectively and be better positioned to respond to competition globally; in this regard, this Council" after "That this Council"; to delete "that in promoting reforms of the securities and futures markets," after "urges"; to delete "must be impartial and open-minded, face up to the worries of the industry, encourage the industry to participate in discussions on the reforms, seek consensus among various sectors of the community, promote the steady development of the financial market, as well as create a favourable investment environment and more opportunities for investors in the future" after "the Government" and substitute with "to expeditiously put forward concrete proposals for the organization and structure of the"; to add ", the organization of the regulatory body and the demarcation of authorities and responsibilities between the two institutions, as well as to consult the public on these proposals" after "new Exchange"; to delete "in keeping with the trends in the international financial markets," after "furthermore," and substitute with "this Council urges"; and to delete "should also formulate comprehensive and long-term development strategies with a view to enhancing the competitiveness of Hong Kong's financial services industry internationally" after "the Government" and substitute with "to adopt measures to perfect the reforms of the securities and futures markets, including: (a) increasing its investment in information technology (IT) and improving the IT infrastructure to cater for the development of internet trading and scripless market; (b) developing statutory regulations with emphasis on the disclosure of information, which should include requirements for additional information disclosure and the setting up of an electronic filing system; and (c) enhancing the education and protection of minority shareholders and investors".

Question on Hon SIN Chung-kai's amendment to Hon Ambrose LAU's motion proposed.

Seven Members spoke on the motion and the amendment.

At 9:20 pm, the President resumed the chair.

Another six Members spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Hon Ambrose LAU spoke on the amendment.

The Secretary for Financial Services spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Question on Hon SIN Chung-kai's amendment to Hon Ambrose LAU's motion put.

Hon SIN Chung-kai claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 18 were present, seven were in favour of the amendment, six against it and five abstained; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 24 were present, 12 were in favour of the amendment, eight against it and three abstained. (Voting record in Appendix III.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was negatived.

Hon Ambrose LAU replied.

Question on Hon Ambrose LAU's original motion put and agreed to.

Next Meeting

The President declared that the next meeting of the Council would be held on 6 May 1999 at 2:30 pm.

The Council was adjourned at 10:23 pm.

(Mrs Rita FAN)
President

Council Chamber
Hong Kong