LC Paper No. CB(3) 889/98-99

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

MINUTES
No. 19
Minutes of the meeting held on Wednesday 9 December 1998 at 2:30 pm

Members present:

President
The Hon Mrs Rita FAN, GBS, JP
The Hon Kenneth TING Woo-shou, JP
The Hon James TIEN Pei-chun, JP
The Hon David CHU Yu-lin
The Hon HO Sai-chu, JP
The Hon Cyd HO Sau-lan
The Hon Edward HO Sing-tin, JP
The Hon Albert HO Chun-yan
The Hon Michael HO Mun-ka
Dr the Hon Raymond HO Chung-tai, JP
The Hon LEE Wing-tat
The Hon LEE Cheuk-yan
The Hon Martin LEE Chu-ming, SC, JP
The Hon Eric LI Ka-cheung, JP
The Hon LEE Kai-ming, JP
Dr the Hon David LI Kwok-po, JP
The Hon Fred LI Wah-ming
Dr the Hon LUI Ming-wah, JP
The Hon NG Leung-sing
Prof the Hon NG Ching-fai
The Hon Margaret NG
The Hon Mrs Selina CHOW LIANG Shuk-yee, JP
The Hon Ronald ARCULLI, JP
The Hon MA Fung-kwok
The Hon James TO Kun-sun
The Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong
The Hon Ambrose CHEUNG Wing-sum, JP
The Hon HUI Cheung-ching
The Hon Christine LOH
The Hon CHAN Kwok-keung
The Hon CHAN Yuen-han
The Hon CHAN Wing-chan
The Hon CHAN Kam-lam
Dr the Hon LEONG Che-hung, JP
The Hon Mrs Sophie LEUNG LAU Yau-fun, JP
The Hon LEUNG Yiu-chung
The Hon Gary CHENG Kai-nam
The Hon SIN Chung-kai
The Hon Andrew WONG Wang-fat, JP
Dr the Hon Philip WONG Yu-hong
The Hon WONG Yung-kan
The Hon Jasper TSANG Yok-sing, JP
The Hon Howard YOUNG, JP
Dr the Hon YEUNG Sum
The Hon YEUNG Yiu-chung
The Hon LAU Chin-shek, JP
The Hon LAU Kong-wah
The Hon LAU Wong-fat, GBS, JP
The Hon Mrs Miriam LAU Kin-yee, JP
The Hon Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen, JP
The Hon Emily LAU Wai-hing, JP
The Hon CHOY So-yuk
The Hon Andrew CHENG Kar-foo
The Hon SZETO Wah
The Hon LAW Chi-kwong, JP
The Hon TAM Yiu-chung, JP
The Hon FUNG Chi-kin
Dr the Hon TANG Siu-tong, JP

Members absent:

The Hon Bernard CHAN
The Hon Timothy FOK Tsun-ting, JP

Public officers attending:

The Honourable Mrs Anson CHAN, JP
The Chief Secretary for Administration

The Honourable Donald TSANG Yam-kuen, JP
The Financial Secretary

The Honourable Elsie LEUNG Oi-sie, JP
The Secretary for Justice

Mr Nicholas NG Wing-fui, JP
Secretary for Transport

Mr Joseph WONG Wing-ping, GBS, JP
Secretary for Education and Manpower

Mr KWONG Ki-chi, GBS, JP
Secretary for Information Technology and Broadcasting

Miss Denise YUE Chung-yee, JP
Secretary for the Treasury

Mr LAM Woon-kwong, JP
Secretary for the Civil Service

Mrs Regina IP LAU Suk-yee, JP
Secretary for Security

Mr Peter LO Yat-fai, JP
Secretary for Home Affairs

Mr Patrick LAU Lai-chiu, JP
Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands
Clerks in attendance:
Mr Ricky FUNG Choi-cheung, JP,
Secretary General

Mr LAW Kam-sang, JP,
Deputy Secretary General

Ms Pauline NG Man-wah,
Assistant Secretary General (1)

Mr Ray CHAN Yum-mou,
Assistant Secretary General (3)
Papers

The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure:

Subsidiary Legislation L.N. No.
1.Arbitration (Parties to New York Convention) (Amendment) Order 1998368/98
2.Immigration (Amendment) Regulation 1998 (L.N. 318 of 1998) (Commencement) Notice 1998369/98

Sessional Papers

No.66-Ocean Park CorporationAnnual Report 1997-1998

No.67-The Prince Philip Dental Hospital Hong Kong Report by the Board of Governors for the period 1 April 1997 to 31 March 1998

No.68-Equal Opportunities CommissionAnnual Report 1997/98

Hon Ronald ARCULLI presented the Ocean Park Corporation Annual Report 1997-1998 and addressed the Council.

A Member sought elucidation on a point in the Report.

Hon Ronald ARCULLI replied.

Report

Report of the Bills Committee on Hotel Accommodation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 1998

Questions

1. Hon Mrs Miriam LAU asked Question 1.

The Secretary for Transport replied.

Six Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Transport replied.

2. Hon Kenneth TING asked Question 2.

The Secretary for the Civil Service replied.

Five Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for the Civil Service replied.

3. Hon Mrs Selina CHOW asked Question 3.

The Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

Three Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

4. Hon Ambrose CHEUNG asked Question 4.

The Secretary for the Treasury replied.

A Member asked one supplementary and the Secretary for the Treasury replied.

5. Hon LAU Kong-wah asked Question 5.

The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands replied.

Five Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands replied.

6. Prof Hon NG Ching-fai asked Question 6.

The Secretary for Home Affairs replied.

Four Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Home Affairs replied.

Written replies to Questions 7 to 20 were tabled for Members' information.

Bills

First Reading

Film Censorship (Amendment) Bill 1998

The Bill was read the first time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Rule 53(3) of the Rules of Procedure.

Second Reading

Film Censorship (Amendment) Bill 1998

The Secretary for Information Technology and Broadcasting moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee.

Resumption of Second Reading debate

Hotel Accommodation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 1998

The debate on the Second Reading which had been moved on 16 September 1998 resumed.

Hon CHAN Kam-lam, Chairman of the Bills Committee, addressed the Council on the Report of the Bills Committee on Hotel Accommodation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 1998.

Two other Members spoke on the Bill.

The Secretary for Home Affairs replied.

Question on the Second Reading put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

Committee Stage

The Council went into Committee and considered the Hotel Accommodation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 1998.

Question that clauses 2, 3, 4, 8, 9, 11 and 12 stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

Question that clauses 5, 6, 7 and 10 stand part of the Bill proposed.

The Secretary for Home Affairs moved amendments to clauses 5, 6, 7 and 10 and addressed the Committee.

Question on the amendments put and agreed to.

Question that clauses 5, 6, 7 and 10, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

The President ordered the Council to resume and granted leave for the Secretary for Home Affairs to move a motion under Rule 91 of the Rules of Procedure that Rule 58(5) of the Rules of Procedure be suspended to enable the Committee of the whole Council to consider the proposed new clause 7A ahead of clause 1 of the Bill.

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

The Council went into Committee again.

New clause 7A read the first time.

The Secretary for Home Affairs moved the Second Reading of new clause 7A and addressed the Committee.

Question on the Second Reading of new clause 7A proposed, put and agreed to.

New clause 7A read the second time.

The Secretary for Home Affairs moved the addition of new clause 7A to the Bill.

Question on the addition proposed, put and agreed to.

Question that clause 1 stand part of the Bill proposed.

The Secretary for Home Affairs moved an amendment to clause 1 and addressed the Committee.

Question on the amendment put and agreed to.

Question that clause 1, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

The Council then resumed.

Third Reading

The Secretary for Home Affairs reported that

the Hotel Accommodation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 1998 had passed through Committee with amendments. He moved that the Bill be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the Third Reading proposed, put and agreed to.

Bill read the third time and passed.

Motions

Proposed resolution under the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Ordinance

The Secretary for Security moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

Resolved that the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters (Australia) Order, made by the Chief Executive in Council on 13 October 1998, be approved.

Question on the motion proposed.

A Member spoke on the motion.

Question on the motion put and agreed to.

Proposed resolution under the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Ordinance

The Secretary for Security moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

Resolved that the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters (France) Order, made by the Chief Executive in Council on 13 October 1998, be approved.

Question on the motion proposed.

A Member spoke on the motion.

Question on the motion put and agreed to.

Proposed resolution under the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Ordinance

The Secretary for Security moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

Resolved that the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters (New Zealand) Order, made by the Chief Executive in Council on 13 October 1998, be approved.

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

Proposed resolution under the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Ordinance

The Secretary for Security moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

Resolved that the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters (United Kingdom) Order, made by the Chief Executive in Council on 13 October 1998, be approved.

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

Members' Motions

The repealed labour ordinances

Hon Andrew CHENG moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That, as the Provisional Legislative Council (PLC) repealed the Employment (Amendment) (No. 4) Ordinance 1997 and the Employee's Rights to Representation, Consultation and Collective Bargaining Ordinance and amended the Trade Unions (Amendment) (No. 2) Ordinance 1997, thereby breaching the International Labour Convention and the Basic Law, this Council deeply regrets the actions of the PLC and the Government, and urges the Government to immediately submit to this Council for reconsideration those pieces of labour legislation that have been repealed or amended, so as to safeguard the basic rights of the labour force.

Question on the motion proposed.

12 Members spoke on the motion. Since no other Member had indicated a wish to speak, the President invited the Secretary for Education and Manpower to speak on the motion.

After the Secretary for Education and Manpower had spoken, a Member raised his hand to indicate his wish to speak on the motion.

The President stated that it had been a long-standing practice of the Council that Members who wished to speak on the motion would speak before the Public Officer. This arrangement could avoid the debate dragging on indefinitely. Nevertheless, since the Rules of Procedure did not specifically preclude Members from speaking after the last Public Officer had spoken, she would allow other Members who had not spoken to speak after the Secretary for Education and Manpower. She would however invite the Committee on Rules of Procedure to examine and consider the need to amend the Rules of Procedure regarding the speaking arrangement for motion debates, to tie in with the current practice.

Another four Members and the Secretary for Education and Manpower spoke on the motion.

Hon Andrew CHENG replied.

Question on the motion put.

Hon Andrew CHENG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 27 were present, seven were in favour of the motion and 20 against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 28 were present, 15 were in favour of the motion and 12 against it. (Voting record in Appendix I.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the motion was negatived.

The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region's judicial jurisdiction

Hon Martin LEE moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That this Council deeply regrets that, while the cases involving the kidnapping of two business tycoons in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("SAR") and the murder of five persons in Telford Gardens, which are being handled in the Mainland in accordance with the Criminal Law of the People's Republic of China, have caused widespread concern among Hong Kong people, the SAR Government has not tried its utmost to seek the return of those who are suspected of violating the law in the SAR for trial in the SAR courts so as to safeguard the judicial jurisdiction conferred on the SAR by the Basic Law; this Council also urges the SAR Government to expeditiously discuss and conclude an agreement with the Central People's Government, on the basis of internationally accepted principles, on rendition arrangements between the Mainland and the SAR, so as to restore the public's confidence in the SAR's judicial jurisdiction.

Question on Hon Martin LEE's motion proposed.

The President stated that Hon Mrs Miriam LAU would move an amendment to the motion. In accordance with the Rules of Procedure, the motion and the proposed amendment would be debated together in a joint debate.

Hon Mrs Miriam LAU moved the following amendment to Hon Martin LEE's motion and addressed the Council:

To delete "this Council deeply regrets that, while" and substitute with "as"; to delete "cases involving the kidnapping of two business tycoons in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("SAR")" and substitute with "CHEUNG Tze-keung case"; to delete ", which are being handled in the Mainland in accordance with the Criminal Law of the People's Republic of China,"; to delete "the SAR Government has not tried its utmost to seek the return of those who are suspected of violating the law in the SAR for trial in the SAR courts so as to safeguard the judicial jurisdiction conferred on the SAR by the Basic Law;"; to delete "also" from "this Council also urges the SAR"; to delete "SAR" from "this Council also urges the SAR" and substitute with "Special Administrative Region (SAR)"; to add "and to ensure that the agreement thus reached can fully address the concerns of the public," after "on rendition arrangements between the Mainland and the SAR,"; and delete "restore" from "so as to restore the public's confidence in the SAR's judicial jurisdiction" and substitute with "enhance".

At 7:19 pm, the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

Question on Hon Mrs Miriam LAU's amendment to Hon Martin LEE's motion proposed.

The Secretary for Justice and three Members spoke on the motion and the amendment.

At 8:02 pm, the President resumed the chair.

Another 13 Members spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Hon Martin LEE spoke on the amendment.

The Secretary for Security spoke on the motion and the amendment.

One more Member and the Secretary for Justice spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Question on Hon Mrs Miriam LAU's amendment to Hon Martin LEE's motion put.

Hon Martin LEE claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 26 were present, 21 were in favour of the amendment and five against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 29 were present, 13 were in favour of the amendment and 15 against it. (Voting record in Appendix II.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was negatived.

Hon Martin LEE replied.

Question on Hon Martin LEE's original motion put.

Hon Martin LEE claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 26 were present, six were in favour of the original motion and 20 against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 30 were present, 15 were in favour of the original motion and 14 against it. (Voting record in Appendix III.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the original motion was negatived.

Next Meeting

The President declared that the next meeting of the Council would be held on 16 December 1998 at 2:30 pm.

The Council was adjourned at 10:18 pm.

(Mrs Rita FAN) President

Council Chamber
Hong Kong