LC Paper No. CB(3) 1258/98-99

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

MINUTES
No. 27
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Minutes of the meeting held on Wednesday 10 February 1999 at 2:30 pm
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Members present:

President
The Hon Mrs Rita FAN, GBS, JP

The Hon Kenneth TING Woo-shou, JP
The Hon James TIEN Pei-chun, JP
The Hon David CHU Yu-lin
The Hon HO Sai-chu, JP
The Hon Cyd HO Sau-lan
The Hon Edward HO Sing-tin, JP
The Hon Albert HO Chun-yan
The Hon Michael HO Mun-ka
Dr the Hon Raymond HO Chung-tai, JP
The Hon LEE Wing-tat
The Hon LEE Cheuk-yan
The Hon Martin LEE Chu-ming, SC, JP
The Hon Eric LI Ka-cheung, JP
The Hon LEE Kai-ming, JP
Dr the Hon David LI Kwok-po, JP
The Hon Fred LI Wah-ming
Dr the Hon LUI Ming-wah, JP
The Hon NG Leung-sing
Prof the Hon NG Ching-fai
The Hon Margaret NG
The Hon Mrs Selina CHOW LIANG Shuk-yee, JP
The Hon Ronald ARCULLI, JP
The Hon MA Fung-kwok
The Hon James TO Kun-sun
The Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong
The Hon Ambrose CHEUNG Wing-sum, JP
The Hon Christine LOH
The Hon CHAN Kwok-keung
The Hon CHAN Yuen-han
The Hon Bernard CHAN
The Hon CHAN Wing-chan
The Hon CHAN Kam-lam
Dr the Hon LEONG Che-hung, JP
The Hon Mrs Sophie LEUNG LAU Yau-fun, JP
The Hon LEUNG Yiu-chung
The Hon Gary CHENG Kai-nam
The Hon SIN Chung-kai
The Hon Andrew WONG Wang-fat, JP
Dr the Hon Philip WONG Yu-hong
The Hon WONG Yung-kan
The Hon Jasper TSANG Yok-sing, JP
The Hon Howard YOUNG, JP
Dr the Hon YEUNG Sum
The Hon YEUNG Yiu-chung
The Hon LAU Chin-shek, JP
The Hon LAU Kong-wah
The Hon LAU Wong-fat, GBS, JP
The Hon Mrs Miriam LAU Kin-yee, JP
The Hon Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen, JP
The Hon Emily LAU Wai-hing, JP
The Hon CHOY So-yuk
The Hon Andrew CHENG Kar-foo
The Hon SZETO Wah
The Hon Timothy FOK Tsun-ting, JP
The Hon LAW Chi-kwong, JP
The Hon TAM Yiu-chung, JP
The Hon FUNG Chi-kin
Dr the Hon TANG Siu-tong, JP

Member absent:

The Hon HUI Cheung-ching

Public officers attending:

The Honourable Mrs Anson CHAN, JP

The Chief Secretary for Administration

The Honourable Donald TSANG Yam-kuen, JP

The Financial Secretary

Mr Michael SUEN Ming-yeung, JP

Secretary for Constitutional Affairs

Mr Gordon SIU Kwing-chue, JP

Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands

Mr Dominic WONG Shing-wah, JP

Secretary for Housing

Mrs Katherine FOK LO Shiu-ching, JP

Secretary for Health and Welfare

Mr Joseph WONG Wing-ping, GBS, JP

Secretary for Education and Manpower

Miss Denise YUE Chung-yee, JP

Secretary for the Treasury

Mr Stephen IP Shu-kwan, JP

Secretary for Economic Services

Mr Benedict KWONG Hon-sang, JP

Secretary for Works

Mrs Regina IP LAU Suk-yee, JP

Secretary for Security

Mr Leo KWAN Wing-wah, JP

Secretary for Home Affairs

Clerks in attendance:

Mr Ricky FUNG Choi-cheung, JP,

Secretary General

Mr LAW Kam-sang, JP,

Deputy Secretary General

Mrs Justina LAM CHENG Bo-ling,

Assistant Secretary General (2)

Mr Ray CHAN Yum-mou,

Assistant Secretary General (3)

Papers

The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure:

Subsidiary Legislation		L.N. No.
1.	Air Pollution Control (Motor Vehicle Fuel) (Amendment) Regulation 1999	35/99
2.	Census and Statistics (Survey of External Claims, Liabilities and Income) Order	36/99
3.	Animals and Plants (Protection of Endangered Species) (Exemption) (Amendment) Order 1999	37/99
4.	Animals and Plants (Protection of Endangered Species) Ordinance (Amendment of Schedules) Notice 1999	38/99
5.	Rules of the High Court (Amendment) Rules 1999	39/99
6.	Pharmacy and Poisons (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulation 1998 (L.N. 22 of 1999) (Commencement) Notice 1999	40/99
7.	Poisons List (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulation 1998 (L.N. 23 of 1999) (Commencement) Notice 1999	41/99
8.	Census and Statistics (Quarterly Survey of Employment and Vacancies) (Amendment) Order 1999	42/99

Sessional Papers

	No.91	-	Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure of the Provisional Regional Council for 1999/2000 together with a list of works which it proposes to undertake during 1999/2000
	No.92	-	Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure of the Provisional Urban Council for 1999/2000 together with a list of works which it proposes to undertake during 1999/2000
	No.93	-	Revised list of works of the Provisional Urban Council for the 1998/99 financial year (during the third quarter ended 31 December 1998)
	No.94	-	Report by the Commissioner of Correctional Services on the administration of the Prisoners' Welfare Fund for the year ended 31 March 1998
	No.95	-	Audited Statement of Accounts together with the Director of Audit's Report of the Sing Tao Foundation Students' Loan Fund for the year ended 31 August 1998
	No.96	-	Audited Statement of Accounts together with the Director of Audit's Report of the Hong Kong Rotary Club Students' Loan Fund for the year ended 31 August 1998
	No.97	-	Audited Statement of Accounts together with the Director of Audit's Report and Trustee's Report on the Administration of the Education Scholarships Fund for the year ended 31 August 1998
	No.98	-	Audited Statement of Accounts of the Director of Social Welfare Incorporated together with the Director of Audit's Report for the year ended 31 March 1998
	No.99	-	Report of the Public Accounts Committee on Report No. 30 of the Director of Audit on the Results of Value for Money Audits (February 1999 - P.A.C. Report No. 30)
	No.100	-	Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the Reports of the Director of Audit on the Accounts of the Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region for the year ended 31 March 1998 and the Results of Value for Money Audits (Report No. 31) (February 1999 - P.A.C. Report No. 31)

Reports

1. Report of the Bills Committee on Human Organ Transplant (Amendment) Bill 1999.

2. Report of the Subcommittee on Ozone Layer Protection (Controlled Refrigerants) Regulation (Commencement) Notice 1998.

Addresses

Hon Eric LI, Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, addressed the Council on two Reports of the Public Accounts Committee on Reports Nos 30 and 31 of the Director of Audit on Results of Value for Money Audits and on the Accounts of the Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region for the year ended 31 March 1998.

Hon Ronald ARCULLI, Chairman of the Subcommittee on Ozone Layer Protection (Controlled Refrigerants) Regulation (Commencement) Notice 1998, addressed the Council on the Subcommittee's report.

Questions

1. Hon Martin LEE asked Question 1.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs replied.

Six Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs replied.

2. Dr Hon TANG Siu-tong asked Question 2.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

Three Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

3. Hon James TIEN asked Question 3.

The Secretary for Security replied.

Six Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Security replied.

4. Dr Hon HO Chung-tai asked Question 4.

The Secretary for Housing replied.

Six Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Housing replied.

5. Hon LAU Kong-wah asked Question 5.

The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands replied.

Six Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands replied.

6. Hon Howard YOUNG asked Question 6.

The Secretary for the Treasury replied.

Four Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for the Treasury replied.

Written replies to Questions 7 to 20 were tabled for Members’ information.

Bills

First Reading

International Organizations (Privileges and Immunities) Bill

Adaptation of Laws (No.3) Bill 1999

Adaptation of Laws (No.2) Bill 1999

Adaptation of Laws (No.4) Bill 1999

Disciplined Services Welfare Funds Legislation (Amendment) Bill 1999

The Bills were read the first time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Rule 53(3) of the Rules of Procedure.

Second Reading International Organizations (Privileges and Immunities) Bill

The Chief Secretary for Administration moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee.

Adaptation of Laws (No.3) Bill 1999

The Secretary for Housing moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee.

Adaptation of Laws (No.2) Bill 1999

The Secretary for Education and Manpower moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee.

Adaptation of Laws (No.4) Bill 1999

The Secretary for Works moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee.

Disciplined Services Welfare Funds Legislation (Amendment) Bill 1999

The Secretary for Security moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee.

Resumption of Second Reading debate

Human Organ Transplant (Amendment) Bill 1999

The debate on the Second Reading which had been moved on 13 January 1999 resumed.

Hon Ronald ARCULLI, Chairman of the Bills Committee on Human Organ Transplant (Amendment) Bill 1999, addressed the Council on the Report of the Bills Committee on the Bill.

Six Members spoke on the Bill.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

Question on the Second Reading put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

Committee Stage

The Council went into Committee and considered the Human Organ Transplant (Amendment) Bill 1999.

Question that clause 1 stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

Question that clause 2 stand part of the Bill proposed.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare moved amendments to clause 2 and addressed the Committee.

Question on the amendments put and agreed to.

Question that clause 2, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

The Council then resumed.

Third Reading

The Secretary for Health and Welfare reported that the Human Organ Transplant (Amendment) Bill 1999 had passed through Committee with amendments. She moved that the Bill be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the Third Reading proposed, put and agreed to.

Bill read the third time and passed.

Members' Motions Proposed resolution under the Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance

Hon CHAN Kam-lam moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

Resolved that the Electricity Ordinance (Cap. 406) (Commencement) Notice 1999 and Electrical Products (Safety) Regulation (Cap. 406 sub. leg.) (Commencement) Notice 1999, respectively published as Legal Notices Nos. 19 and 20 of 1999 and laid on the table of the Legislative Council on 27 January 1999, be repealed.

Question on the motion proposed.

A Member and the Secretary for Economic Services spoke on the motion.

Question on the motion put and agreed to.

Promoting the economy

Hon SIN Chung-kai moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That, in the face of Hong Kong's economic downturn, high unemployment rate and declining competitiveness, and with a view to restoring the momentum of Hong Kong's economic growth, this Council urges the Government to adopt the following measures to boost consumer spending, promote innovation and re-create talents:

1. draw up a deficit budget for the financial year 1999-2000;

2. rebate part of the salaries tax and profits tax received;

3. waive the rates for one quarter in 1999;

4. reduce the fees charged by Government-owned public utilities and freeze government charges;

5. improve the Special Finance Scheme for small and medium enterprises to ease their liquidity difficulties;

6. set up a 'start-up capital loan fund' to give impetus to the establishment of innovative enterprises and increase job opportunities;

7. encourage enterprises to provide on-the-job training for their employees by offering tax incentives for employee training; and

8. motivate young graduates to pursue further studies and enhance their own competitiveness by providing an incentive in the form of 'training vouchers'.

Question on Hon SIN Chung-kai's motion proposed.

The President stated that Hon Christine LOH and Hon CHAN Kam-lam would move amendments to the motion. In accordance with the Rules of Procedure, the motion and the two amendments would be debated together in a joint debate.

Hon Christine LOH and Hon CHAN Kam-lam spoke on the motion and their amendments respectively.

A Member spoke on the motion and the amendments.

At 6:02 pm, the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

Another 13 Members spoke on the motion and the amendments.

Hon SIN Chung-kai spoke on the amendments.

At 7:20 pm, the President resumed the chair.

The Financial Secretary spoke on the motion and the amendments.

Hon Christine LOH moved the following amendment to Hon SIN Chung-kai's motion:

To add "this Council urges the Government in formulating the upcoming budget, to use the occasion to provide short-term relief" after "That"; to add "by using the fiscal reserves wisely, to resume land sales from April 1999 and to discuss tax reform options that Hong Kong can consider in the medium term so that Hong Kong can lessen its public finance dependency on land sales and property related revenues, thereby putting Hong Kong's long-term public finance on a more stable base" after "in the face of Hong Kong's economic downturn"; and to delete ", high unemployment rate and declining competitiveness, and with a view to restoring the momentum of Hong Kong's economic growth, this Council urges the Government to adopt the following measures to boost consumer spending, promote innovation and re-create talents:

1. draw up a deficit budget for the financial year 1999-2000;

2. rebate part of the salaries tax and profits tax received;

3. waive the rates for one quarter in 1999;

4. reduce the fees charged by Government-owned public utilities and freeze government charges;

5. improve the Special Finance Scheme for small and medium enterprises to ease their liquidity difficulties;

6. set up a 'start-up capital loan fund' to give impetus to the establishment of innovative enterprises and increase job opportunities;

7. encourage enterprises to provide on-the-job training for their employees by offering tax incentives for employee training; and

8. motivate young graduates to pursue further studies and enhance their own competitiveness by providing an incentive in the form of 'training vouchers'".

Question on Hon Christine LOH's amendment to Hon SIN Chung-kai's motion proposed, put and negatived.

Hon CHAN Kam-lam moved the following amendment to Hon SIN Chung-kai's motion:

To add "reduce the operating costs of enterprises," after "this Council urges the Government to adopt the following measures to"¡Fto add ", in the form of 'purchase vouchers'," after "2. rebate"¡Fto add "3. reduce fuel duty by 50% to lower the operating costs of the transport sector;"; to delete "3" from "3. waive the rates for one quarter in 1999" and substitute with "4"; to add "and lower the rates percentage charges to 3%" after "waive the rates for one quarter in 1999"; to delete "4" from "4. reduce the fees charged by Government-owned public utilities and freeze government charges;" and substitute with "5"; to delete "5" from "5. improve the Special Finance Scheme" and substitute with "6"; to insert "formulate a comprehensive policy to support small and medium enterprises, strengthen the role of the Small and Medium Enterprises Office, assist these enterprises in perfecting their management, opening up markets and developing products, and" before "improve the Special Finance Scheme for small and medium enterprises to ease their liquidity difficulties;"; to delete "6" from "6. set up a 'start-up capital loan fund'" and substitute with "7"; to add "to provide unsecured low-interest loans" after "set up a 'start-up capital loan fund'"; to delete "7" from "7. encourage enterprises to provide on-the-job training" and substitute with "8"; and to delete "8" from "8. motivate young graduates to pursue further studies" and substitute with "9".

Question on Hon CHAN Kam-lam's amendment to Hon SIN Chung-kai's motion proposed and put.

Hon LEE Wing-tat claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 22 were present, five were in favour of the amendment, three against it and 14 abstained; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 28 were present, 10 were in favour of the amendment, two against it and 15 abstained. (Voting record in Appendix I.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was negatived.

Hon SIN Chung-kai replied.

Question on Hon SIN Chung-kai's original motion put and agreed to.

Prices of fuel

Hon Mrs Miriam LAU moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That, in order that fuel prices can soon be reduced across the board and maintained at a reasonable level, this Council urges the Government to adopt comprehensive measures, including immediately reducing fuel duty, continuing to negotiate with oil companies for price reduction; lowering the land premium and rental costs of filling stations by granting more land designated for such stations; opening up the retail fuel market to introduce price competition; and, under the principle of not affecting commercial operations, encouraging oil companies to enhance the transparency in the determination of oil prices.

Question on Hon Mrs Miriam LAU's motion proposed.

The President stated that Hon Fred LI would move an amendment to the motion. In accordance with the Rules of Procedure, the motion and the amendment would be debated together in a joint debate.

Hon Fred LI moved the following amendment to Hon Mrs Miriam LAU's motion and addressed the Council:

To delete ", in order that fuel prices can soon be reduced across the board and maintained at a reasonable level,"; to delete "adopt comprehensive measures, including"; to delete "reducing" and substitute with "reduce"; and to delete ", continuing to negotiate with oil companies for price reduction; lowering the land premium and rental costs of filling stations by granting more land designated for such stations; opening up the retail fuel market to introduce price competition; and, under the principle of not affecting commercial operations, encouraging oil companies to enhance the transparency in the determination of oil prices" and substitute with "so that fuel prices can be lowered and, in order to enhance the oil companies' transparency and accountability, to require these companies to consult the Energy Advisory Committee and brief the Legislative Council on price adjustments in future; this Council also requests the Competition Policy Advisory Group to expeditiously conduct a survey on the structure and mode of operation of the local fuel market, with a view to introducing appropriate legislation and measures to remove unfair competition among the oil companies, thereby bringing fuel prices back to a competitive level determined by the market".

Question on Hon Fred LI's amendment to Hon Mrs Miriam LAU's motion proposed.

Five Members spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Hon Mrs Miriam LAU spoke on the amendment.

The Secretary for Economic Services spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Question on Hon Fred LI's amendment to Hon Mrs Miriam LAU's motion put.

Hon Fred LI claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 20 were present, four were in favour of the amendment, 15 against it and one abstained; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 22 were present, 10 were in favour of the amendment and 11 against it. (Voting record in Appendix II.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was negatived.

Hon Mrs Miriam LAU replied.

Question on Hon Mrs Miriam LAU's original motion put.

Dr Hon YEUNG Sum claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 20 were present, 14 were in favour of the original motion, two against it and four abstained; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 22 were present, 10 were in favour of the original motion, three against it and eight abstained. (Voting record in Appendix III.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the original motion was negatived.

Next Meeting

The President declared that the next meeting of the Council would be held on 3 March 1999 at 2:30 pm.

The Council was adjourned at 9:02 pm.

(Mrs Rita FAN)
President

Council Chamber
Hong Kong