LC Paper No. CB(3) 1352/98-99

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

MINUTES
No. 29
___________
Minutes of the meeting of Wednesday 10 March 1999 at 2:30 pm
___________

Members present:

President
The Hon Mrs Rita FAN, GBS, JP
The Hon Kenneth TING Woo-shou, JP
The Hon James TIEN Pei-chun, JP
The Hon David CHU Yu-lin
The Hon HO Sai-chu, JP
The Hon Cyd HO Sau-lan
The Hon Edward HO Sing-tin, JP
The Hon Albert HO Chun-yan
The Hon Michael HO Mun-ka
Dr the Hon Raymond HO Chung-tai, JP
The Hon LEE Wing-tat
The Hon LEE Cheuk-yan
The Hon Martin LEE Chu-ming, SC, JP
The Hon Eric LI Ka-cheung, JP
The Hon LEE Kai-ming, JP
Dr the Hon David LI Kwok-po, JP
The Hon Fred LI Wah-ming
Dr the Hon LUI Ming-wah, JP
The Hon NG Leung-sing
Prof the Hon NG Ching-fai
The Hon Margaret NG
The Hon Mrs Selina CHOW LIANG Shuk-yee, JP
The Hon Ronald ARCULLI, JP
The Hon MA Fung-kwok
The Hon James TO Kun-sun
The Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong
The Hon Ambrose CHEUNG Wing-sum, JP
The Hon HUI Cheung-ching
The Hon Christine LOH
The Hon CHAN Kwok-keung
The Hon CHAN Yuen-han
The Hon Bernard CHAN
The Hon CHAN Wing-chan
The Hon CHAN Kam-lam
Dr the Hon LEONG Che-hung, JP
The Hon Mrs Sophie LEUNG LAU Yau-fun, JP
The Hon LEUNG Yiu-chung
The Hon Gary CHENG Kai-nam
The Hon SIN Chung-kai
The Hon Andrew WONG Wang-fat, JP
Dr the Hon Philip WONG Yu-hong
The Hon WONG Yung-kan
The Hon Jasper TSANG Yok-sing, JP
The Hon Howard YOUNG, JP
Dr the Hon YEUNG Sum
The Hon YEUNG Yiu-chung
The Hon LAU Chin-shek, JP
The Hon LAU Kong-wah
The Hon LAU Wong-fat, GBS, JP
The Hon Mrs Miriam LAU Kin-yee, JP
The Hon Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen, JP
The Hon Emily LAU Wai-hing, JP
The Hon CHOY So-yuk
The Hon Andrew CHENG Kar-foo
The Hon SZETO Wah
The Hon Timothy FOK Tsun-ting, JP
The Hon LAW Chi-kwong, JP
The Hon TAM Yiu-chung, JP
The Hon FUNG Chi-kin
Dr the Hon TANG Siu-tong, JP

Public officers attending:

The Honourable Mrs Anson CHAN, JP
The Chief Secretary for Administration

The Honourable Donald TSANG Yam-kuen, JP
The Financial Secretary

The Honourable Elsie LEUNG Oi-sie, JP
The Secretary for Justice

Mr Michael SUEN Ming-yeung, JP
Secretary for Constitutional Affairs

Mr CHAU Tak-hay, JP
Secretary for Trade and Industry

Mr Gordon SIU Kwing-chue, JP
Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands

Mr Nicholas NG Wing-fui, JP
Secretary for Transport

Mr Dominic WONG Shing-wah, JP
Secretary for Housing

Mrs Katherine FOK LO Shiu-ching, JP
Secretary for Health and Welfare

Mr Rafael HUI Si-yan, GBS, JP
Secretary for Financial Services

Mr Joseph WONG Wing-ping, GBS, JP
Secretary for Education and Manpower

Mr KWONG Ki-chi, GBS, JP
Secretary for Information Technology and Broadcasting

Miss Denise YUE Chung-yee, JP
Secretary for the Treasury

Mr LAM Woon-kwong, JP
Secretary for the Civil Service

Mr Benedict KWONG Hon-sang, JP
Secretary for Works

Mr David LAN Hong-tsung, JP
Secretary for Home Affairs

Mrs Regina IP LAU Suk-yee, JP
Secretary for Security

Ms Maria KWAN Sik-ning, JP
Secretary for Economic Services

Mr Ian Grenville CROSS, SC
Director of Public Prosecutions

Clerks in attendance:

Mr Ricky FUNG Choi-cheung, JP,
Secretary General

Mr LAW Kam-sang, JP,
Deputy Secretary General

Ms Pauline NG Man-wah,
Assistant Secretary General (1)

Mrs Justina LAM CHENG Bo-ling,
Assistant Secretary General (2)

Mr Ray CHAN Yum-mou,
Assistant Secretary General (3)

Papers

The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure:

Subsidiary LegislationL.N. No.

1.

Telecommunication (Amendment) Regulation 1999

58/99

2.

Dangerous Drugs Ordinance (Amendment of Second Schedule) Order 1999

59/99

3.

Dangerous Goods (Consignment by Air) (Safety) Regulations (Amendment of Schedule) Order 1999

60/99

4.

Stamp Duty (Amendment) (No.2) Ordinance 1998 (33 of 1998) (Commencement) Notice 1999

61/99

5.

Tax Exemption (1997 Tax Year) Order

62/99

Sessional Papers

No.104

-

The Lord Wilson Heritage Trust
Annual Report 1997 - 1998

No.105

-

Traffic Accident Victims Assistance Fund
Annual Report by the Director of Social Welfare Incorporated for the year from 1 April 1997 to 31 March 1998

No.106

-

Report by the Commissioner of Correctional Services on the Administration of the Correctional Services Department Welfare Fund for the year ended 31 March 1998

Reports


1.

Report of the Bills Committee on Film Censorship (Amendment) Bill 1998

2.

Report of the Bills Committee on District Councils Bill

Questions

1. Hon TSANG Yok-sing asked Question 1.

The Secretary for Information Technology and Broadcasting replied.

Eight Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Information Technology and Broadcasting replied.

2. Hon Eric LI Ka-cheung asked Question 2.

The Secretary for the Treasury replied.

Five Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for the Treasury replied.

3. Hon FUNG Chi-kin asked Question 3.

The Secretary for Financial Services replied.

Five Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Financial Services replied.

4. Hon NG Leung-sing asked Question 4.

The Secretary for Trade and Industry replied.

Five Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Trade and Industry replied.

5. Hon Michael HO asked Question 5.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

Six Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

6. Hon James TO asked Question 6.

The Secretary for Home Affairs replied.

Five Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Home Affairs replied.

Written replies to Questions 7 to 20 were tabled for Members’ information.

Bills

First Reading

Interpretation and General Clauses (Amendment) Bill 1999
Adaptation of Laws (No.5) Bill 1999
Adaptation of Laws (No.6) Bill 1999
Adaptation of Laws (No.7) Bill 1999
Companies (Amendment) Bill 1999

The Bills were read the first time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Rule 53(3) of the Rules of Procedure.

Second Reading

Interpretation and General Clauses (Amendment) Bill 1999

The Secretary for Justice moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee.

Adaptation of Laws (No.5) Bill 1999

The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee.

Adaptation of Laws (No.6) Bill 1999

The Secretary for Health and Welfare moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee.

Adaptation of Laws (No.7) Bill 1999

Companies (Amendment) Bill 1999

The Secretary for Financial Services moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council on each of the above two Bills.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debates on the above Bills were adjourned and the Bills were referred to the House Committee.

Resumption of Second Reading debate Film Censorship (Amendment) Bill 1998

The debate on the Second Reading which had been moved on 9 December 1998 resumed.

Hon Andrew CHENG, Chairman of the Bills Committee on Film Censorship (Amendment) Bill 1998, addressed the Council on the Report of the Bills Committee on the Bill.

The Secretary for Information Technology and Broadcasting replied.

Question on the Second Reading put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

Committee Stage

The Council went into Committee and considered the Film Censorship (Amendment) Bill 1998.

Question that clauses 1, 2, 3, 6, 9 to 13 stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

Question that clauses 4, 5, 7 and 8 stand part of the Bill proposed.

The Secretary for Information Technology and Broadcasting moved amendments to clauses 4, 5, 7 and 8 and addressed the Committee.

Question on the amendments put and agreed to.

Question that clauses 4, 5, 7 and 8, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

New clause 12A read the first time.

The Secretary for Information Technology and Broadcasting moved the Second Reading of new clause 12A and addressed the Committee.

Question on the Second Reading of new clause 12A proposed, put and agreed to.

New clause 12A read the second time.

The Secretary for Information Technology and Broadcasting moved the addition of new clause 12A to the Bill.

Question on the addition proposed, put and agreed to.

The Council then resumed.

Third Reading

The Secretary for Information Technology and Broadcasting reported that

the Film Censorship (Amendment) Bill 1998

had passed through Committee with amendments. He moved that the Bill be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the Third Reading proposed, put and agreed to.

Bill read the third time and passed.

Resumption of Second Reading debate

District Councils Bill

The debate on the Second Reading which had been moved on 16 December 1998 resumed.

Hon Ambrose LAU, Chairman of the Bills Committee on District Councils Bill, addressed the Council on the Report of the Bills Committee on the Bill.

A Member spoke on the Bill.

At 5:02 pm, there was an uproar in the Public Gallery caused by two men yelling loudly and noisily. The President ordered that these men be removed after they had ignored the President's warning.

Three other Members spoke on the Bill.

At 5:32 pm, while one Member was speaking on the Bill, there was an uproar in the Public Gallery caused by two men yelling loudly and noisily. The President warned them to stop yelling or they would be removed. As the men left the Chamber, they threw sheets of paper from the Public Gallery.

Two other Members spoke on the Bill.

At 5:48 pm, the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

Two other Members spoke on the Bill.

At 6:02 pm, there was an uproar in the Public Gallery caused by two men yelling loudly and noisily. The President's Deputy ordered that they be removed after they had ignored the President's Deputy's warnings.

Two other Members spoke on the Bill.

At 6:25 pm, there was an uproar in the Public Gallery caused by two men yelling loudly and noisily. The President's Deputy ordered that these men be removed as they continued to chant slogans.

Two other Members spoke on the Bill.

At 6:36 pm, the President resumed the chair.

Another Member spoke on the Bill.

At 6:38 pm, while a Member was speaking on the Bill, there was an uproar in the Public Gallery caused by a man yelling loudly and noisily. The President ordered that the man be removed after he had ignored the President's warning.

Six other Members spoke on the Bill.

At 8:03 pm, there was an uproar in the Public Gallery caused by four men and a woman yelling loudly and noisily. The President ordered that they be removed as they continued to chant slogans.

Six further Members spoke on the Bill.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs replied.

Question on the Second Reading put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

Committee Stage

The Council went into Committee and considered the District Councils Bill.

Question that clauses 1, 3, 4, 7, 22, 23, 25, 28 to 31, 34, 35, 36, 40 to 58, 60 to 66, 71 to 76, 78, 80, 84 and 85 stand part of the Bill proposed.

Four Members and the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs spoke on the motion.

Question that clauses 1, 3, 4, 7, 22, 23, 25, 28 to 31, 34, 35, 36, 40 to 58, 60 to 66, 71 to 76, 78, 80, 84 and 85 stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.

The President ordered the Council to resume and granted leave for the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs to move a motion under Rule 91 of the Rules of Procedure that Rule 58(5) of the Rules of Procedure be suspended in order that the Committee of the whole Council might consider schedules 3, 4 and 6 respectively together with the relevant clauses, as they were inter-dependent.

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

The Council went into Committee again.

Question that clause 2, heading of Part II before clause 3, clauses 5, 8, 9, 10, sub-heading of Part IV before clause 11, clauses 11 to 16, 70, 81 and 82 and schedules 3 and 4 stand part of the Bill proposed.

Hon LEE Wing-tat moved the deletion of the definition of "appointed member" from clause 2, subclause 2 from clause 5, paragraph (b) from clause 9, sub-heading of Part IV before clause 11 and clauses 11 to 16, and the amendments to the definition of "member" in clause 2, heading of Part II before clause 3, heading of clause 5, subclause 2 of clause 8, heading of clause 9, clause 10, subclauses 2 and 3 of clause 70, clauses 81 and 82 and schedules 3 and 4 and addressed the Committee.

Eight Members and the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs spoke on the amendments.

Hon Emily LAU and Hon Martin LEE raised a point of order in relation to the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs' response that it would be impossible for him to answer each question raised by Members. The Chairman stated that the Rules of Procedure did not empower her to direct a Public Officer to respond to questions raised by Members in a debate.

Another Member spoke on the amendments.

Hon LEE Wing-tat replied.

Three other Members spoke, and one Member who had spoken and the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs spoke again on the amendments.

Hon Andrew WONG raised a point of order in relation to Members raising too many questions to the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs during a debate. The Chairman stated that the Rules of Procedure did not empower her to prohibit Members to express opinions, raise question or ask the Administration to consider certain points; also, in accordance with Rule 38(1) of the Rules of Procedure, a Member may speak more than once in committee of the whole Council.

Question on the amendments put.

Hon LEE Wing-tat claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 30 were present, nine were in favour of the amendments and 21 against them; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 30 were present, 15 were in favour of the amendments and 14 against them. (Voting record in Appendix 1.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendments were negatived.

Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung rose to move the following motion without notice:

That in the event of further divisions being claimed in respect of the remaining motions to be moved at the Committee Stage of the District Councils Bill at this meeting, Rule 47(1)(c) of the Rules of Procedure be suspended so that the Chairman may order that the Committee do proceed to each of such divisions immediately after the division bell has been rung for one minute.

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

Question that heading of Part II before clauses 3, sub-heading of Part IV before clause 11, clauses 5, 12, 13 and 15 stand part of the Bill put.

Hon LEE Wing-tat claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that 60 Members were present, 35 were in favour of the motion, 23 against it and one abstained. (Voting record in Appendix 2.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of the Members present, she declared that the motion was carried.

Question that Sub-heading before clause 17, clauses 17 to 20 and 26 stand part of the Bill proposed.

Hon LEE Wing-tat moved the deletion of the definition of "ex officio member" and "Rural Committee" from clause 2, paragraph (c) from clause 9, clause 10, sub-heading before clause 17, clauses 17, 18, 19 and subclause 3 from clause 20, and the amendments to the definition of "member" in clause 2, heading and paragraph (b) of clause 9, paragraph (b) of clause 26, subclause 3 of clause 70, clauses 81 and 82 and schedule 4 and addressed the Committee.

11 Members and the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs spoke on the amendments.

Hon LEE Wing-tat replied.

Question on the amendments put.

Hon LEE Wing-tat claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 30 were present, eight were in favour of the amendments and 22 against them; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 30 were present, 14 were in favour of the amendments and 15 against them. (Voting record in Appendix 3.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendments were negatived.

Question that clause 10, sub-heading before clause 17, clauses 18, 26, 81 and 82 stand part of the Bill put.

Hon LEE Wing-tat claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that 55 Members were present, 38 were in favour of the motion and 16 against it. (Voting record in Appendix 4.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of the Members present, she declared that the motion was carried.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs moved amendments to the definition of "ex officio member" in clause 2, clause 9 and schedule 3 and addressed the Committee.

Two Members spoke on the amendments.

Question on the amendments put.

Hon LEE Wing-tat claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that 55 Members were present, 39 were in favour of the amendments and 15 against them. (Voting record in Appendix 5.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of the Members present, she declared that the amendments were agreed.

Question that clause 9, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed and put.

Hon LEE Wing-tat claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that 54 Members were present, 39 were in favour of the motion and 13 against it. (Voting record in Appendix 6.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of the Members present, she declared that the motion was carried.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs moved amendments to schedule 4 and addressed the Committee.

A Member spoke on the amendments.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs replied.

Question on the amendments put.

Hon LEE Wing-tat claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that 54 Members were present, 39 were in favour of the amendments and 14 against them. (Voting record in Appendix 7.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of the Members present, she declared that the amendments were agreed.

Question that schedule 4, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed and put.

Hon LEE Wing-tat claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that 55 Members were present, 39 were in favour of the motion and 15 against it. (Voting record in Appendix 8.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of the Members present, she declared that the motion was carried.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs moved amendments to clauses 11 and 16 and addressed the Committee.

Five Members spoke on the amendments.

Question on the amendments put.

Hon LEE Wing-tat claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that 55 Members were present, 39 were in favour of the amendments and 15 against them. (Voting record in Appendix 9.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of the Members present, she declared that the amendments were agreed.

Hon LEE Wing-tat said he had learnt that Hon LAU Chin-shek had withdrawn his proposed amendments to clauses 6, 79 and 83 of the Bill and Hon Cyd HO had withdrawn her proposed addition of new clause 70A to the Bill. He requested the Chairman to allow him to move without notice those amendments that had been withdrawn by these two Members.

The Chairman suspended the meeting at 1:18 am.

At 1:46 am on 11 March 1999, when the Council resumed, there was an uproar in the Public Gallery caused by two men yelling loudly and noisily. The Chairman ordered them to stop making noises. As they persisted, the Chairman ordered that these men be removed. They were removed accordingly.

At 1:48 am, the Chairman stated that since the amendments to be moved by Hon LAU Chin-shek and Hon Cyd HO had already been printed on the Agenda and Members had had sufficient time to study their contents, she granted Hon LEE Wing-tat leave to move those amendments without notice later at the meeting.

Question that clauses 11 and 16, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed and put.

Hon LEE Wing-tat claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that 53 Members were present, 37 were in favour of the motion and 15 against it. (Voting record in Appendix 10.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of the Members present, she declared that the motion was carried.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs moved amendments to clause 17 and addressed the Committee.

A Member spoke on the amendments.

Question on the amendments put.

Hon LEE Wing-tat claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that 52 Members were present, 37 were in favour of the amendments and 14 against them. (Voting record in Appendix 11.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of the Members present, she declared that the amendments were agreed.

Question that clause 17, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed and put.

Hon LEE Wing-tat claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that 52 Members were present, 37 were in favour of the motion and 14 against it. (Voting record in Appendix 12.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of the Members present, she declared that the motion was carried.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs moved amendments to clause 70 and addressed the Committee.

A Member spoke on the amendments.

Question on the amendments put and agreed to.

Question that clause 70, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong moved an amendment to subclause 1(e) of clause 20 and addressed the Committee.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs and a Member spoke on the amendment.

Question on the amendment put.

Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 29 were present, six were in favour of the amendment and 23 against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 25 were present, nine were in favour of the amendment and 15 against it. (Voting record in Appendix 13.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was negatived.

Question that clause 20 stand part of the Bill put.

Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that 54 Members were present, 40 were in favour of the motion and 13 against it. (Voting record in Appendix 14.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of the Members present, she declared that the motion was carried.

Question that clause 21 stand part of the Bill proposed.

Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong moved an amendment to clause 21 and addressed the Committee.

Eight Members and the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs spoke on the amendment.

Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong replied.

Three Members spoke on the amendment.

Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong replied a second time.

Question on the amendment put.

Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 29 were present, eight were in favour of the amendment and 21 against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 25 were present, 10 were in favour of the amendment, 12 against it and two abstained. (Voting record in Appendix 15.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was negatived.

Question that clause 21 stand part of the Bill put.

Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that 54 Members were present, 40 were in favour of the motion and 13 against it. (Voting record in Appendix 16.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of the Members present, she declared that the motion was carried.

Question that clause 33 stand part of the Bill proposed.

Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong moved an amendment to subclause 1(b) of clause 33 and addressed the Committee.

Four Members spoke on the amendment.

At 3:13 am, there was an uproar in the Public Gallery caused by two men yelling loudly and noisily. The Chairman ordered them to stop yelling. As they did not stop, the Chairman ordered that these men be removed. They were removed accordingly.

Two other Members and the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs spoke on the amendment.

Question on the amendment put.

Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 28 were present, six were in favour of the amendment and 22 against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 25 were present, eight were in favour of the amendment and 16 against it. (Voting record in Appendix 17.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was negatived.

Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong moved a further amendment to subclause 1(b) of clause 33 and the addition of subclause 1(c) to clause 33 and addressed the Committee.

A Member and the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs spoke on the amendments and Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong replied.

Question on the amendments put and negatived.

Question that clause 33 stand part of the Bill put.

Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

Before the results were announced, Prof Hon NG Ching-fai was still casting his vote. He told the Chairman that he voted for the motion.

The Chairman announced that 52 Members were present, 36 were in favour of the motion, 14 against it and one abstained. (Voting record in Appendix 18.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of the Members present, she declared that the motion was carried.

Hon Andrew WONG moved the addition of subclauses 1A and 1B to clause 14 and addressed the Committee.

Three Members and the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs spoke on the amendments.

Hon Andrew WONG replied.

Question on the amendments put.

Hon Andrew WONG claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

While the division bell was ringing, the Chairman announced that there was an error in the voting record in Appendix 18. Prof Hon NG Ching-fai had declared that he voted for the question that clause 33 stand part of the Bill, but the voting record showed that he had "abstained". The Chairman said she would revise the result of Prof NG's vote to "YES". The result of that division was that 52 Members were present, 37 were in favour and 14 against the motion.

The Chairman then ordered Members to vote in the division on Hon Andrew WONG's amendment to clause 14. This was done and the Chairman announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 27 were present, four were in favour of the amendments and 23 against them; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 24 were present, one was in favour of the amendments, 20 were against them and two abstained. (Voting record in Appendix 19.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendments were negatived.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs moved an amendment to subclause 4 of clause 14 and the addition of subclauses 5 and 6 to clause 14 and addressed the Committee.

Three Members spoke on the amendments.

Question on the amendments put.

Hon LEE Wing-tat claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that 52 Members were present, 38 were in favour of the amendments and 13 against them. (Voting record in Appendix 20.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of the Members present, she declared that the amendments were agreed.

As the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs' amendments had been passed, the Chairman granted leave for Hon Ronald ARCULLI to revise his amendment to renumber his proposed subclause as subclause (7) of clause 14.

Hon Ronald ARCULLI moved further amendment to clause 14 by adding subclause (7) and addressed the Committee.

A Member spoke on the amendment.

Hon Ronald ARCULLI replied.

Another Member, the Member who had spoken on the amendment and the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs spoke on the amendment.

Question on the amendment put.

Hon Ronald ARCULLI claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 27 were present, 22 were in favour of the amendment, four against it and one abstained; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 25 were present, 15 were in favour of the amendment and nine against it. (Voting record in Appendix 21.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was agreed.

Question that clause 14, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

Hon Andrew WONG moved an amendment to schedule 3 and addressed the Committee.

Three Members and the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs spoke on the amendment.

Hon Andrew WONG replied.

Question on the amendment put and negatived.

Question that schedule 3, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs moved an amendment to clause 19 and addressed the Committee.

A Member spoke on the amendment.

Question on the amendment put and agreed to.

Question that clause 19, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

Question that clause 24 stand part of the Bill proposed.

Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong moved an amendment to subclause 1(d)(i) of clause 24 and addressed the Committee.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs spoke on the amendment.

Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong replied.

Question on the amendment put.

Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 22 were present, four were in favour of the amendment and 18 against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 25 were present, nine were in favour of the amendment, 12 against it and two abstained. (Voting record in Appendix 22.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was negatived.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs moved an amendment to subclause 5 of clause 24 and the addition of subclauses 6 and 7 to clause 24 and addressed the Committee.

Two Members spoke on the amendments.

Question on the amendments put and agreed to.

As the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs' amendments had been passed, the Chairman granted leave for Hon Ronald ARCULLI to revise his amendment to renumber his proposed subclause of clause 24 as subclause (8) of clause 24.

Hon Ronald ARCULLI moved further amendment to clause 24 by adding subclause (8) and addressed the Committee.

A Member and the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs spoke on the amendment.

Question on the amendment put and agreed to.

Question that clause 24, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

Question that clause 6 stand part of the Bill proposed.

Hon LEE Wing-tat moved an amendment to clause 6 and addressed the Committee.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs spoke on the amendment.

Hon LEE Wing-tat replied.

Two Members spoke on the amendment.

Hon LEE Wing-tat replied a second time.

A Member who had spoken on the amendment spoke again.

Question on the amendment put.

Hon James TO claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 25 were present, five were in favour of the amendment and 20 against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 24 were present, nine were in favour of the amendment and 14 against it. (Voting record in Appendix 23.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was negatived.

Question that clause 6 stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs moved an amendment to subclause 1 of clause 8 and addressed the Committee.

A Member spoke on the amendment.

Question on the amendment put and agreed to.

Question that clause 8, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

Question that clause 79 stand part of the Bill proposed.

Hon LEE Wing-tat moved an amendment to clause 79 and addressed the Committee.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs and four Members spoke on the amendment.

Question on the amendment put.

Hon LEE Wing-tat claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 26 were present, four were in favour of the amendment and 22 against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 24 were present, 10 were in favour of the amendment and 13 against it. (Voting record in Appendix 24.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was negatived.

Question that clause 79 stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.

Question that clause 83 stand part of the Bill proposed.

Hon LEE Wing-tat moved the deletion of clause 83 and addressed the Committee.

Eight Members and the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs spoke on the amendment.

Hon LEE Wing-tat replied.

Question on the amendment put.

Hon James TIEN claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 27 were present, nine were in favour of the amendment and 18 against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 23 were present, nine were in favour of the amendment and 13 against it. (Voting record in Appendix 25.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was negatived.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs moved an amendment to subclause 1 of clause 83 and addressed the Committee.

Three Members spoke on the amendment.

Question on the amendment put.

Hon LEE Wing-tat claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that 49 Members were present, 34 were in favour of the amendment, 13 against it and one abstained. (Voting record in Appendix 26.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of the Members present, she declared that the amendment was agreed.

Question that clause 83, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

Question that clause 59 stand part of the Bill proposed.

The Chairman stated that the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs and Hon Christine LOH had separately given notice to move amendments to clause 59. She ordered that the proposed amendments be debated together in a joint debate.

The Chairman invited the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs to move his amendments first as he was the Public Officer in charge of the Bill.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs moved amendments to clause 59 and addressed the Committee.

The Chairman invited Hon Christine LOH to speak on the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs' amendments as well as her own proposed amendments.

Hon Christine LOH spoke on the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs' amendments as well as her own proposed amendments.

At 5:39 am, the Chairman's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

A Member spoke on the amendments and the proposed amendments.

At 5:42 am, the Chairman resumed the chair.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs replied.

Another Member spoke on the amendments and the proposed amendments.

Hon Christine LOH spoke on the amendments a second time.

Question on the amendments to clause 59 moved by the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs put and agreed to.

As the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs' amendments had been passed, the Chairman granted leave for Hon Christine LOH to revise her amendments to renumber the subclause numbers of her proposed amendments.

Hon Christine LOH moved further amendments to clause 59 and addressed the Committee.

Question on the amendments put.

Hon Christine LOH claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 28 were present, 11 were in favour of the amendments and 17 against them; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 22 were present, 11 were in favour of the amendments and 10 against them. (Voting record in Appendix 27.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendments were negatived.

Question that clause 59, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

Question that clause 67 stand part of the Bill proposed.

Hon SIN Chung-kai moved an amendment to clause 67 and addressed the Committee.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs and a Member spoke on the amendment.

Question on the amendment put.

Hon James TO claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 27 were present, six were in favour of the amendment, 20 against it and one abstained; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 21 were present, nine were in favour of the amendment and 11 against it. (Voting record in Appendix 28.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was negatived.

Question that clause 67 stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.

Question that clause 69 stand part of the Bill proposed.

The Chairman stated that the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs, Hon Fred LI and Hon Ronald ARCULLI had separately given notice to move amendments to clause 69. As the proposed amendments of the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs and Hon Fred LI were incompatible, she ordered that the proposed amendments of the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs and Hon Fred LI be debated together. After the joint debate, the Committee would deal with Hon Ronald ARCULLI's amendment.

The Chairman invited the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs to move his amendment first as he was the Public Officer in charge of the Bill.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs moved an amendment to clause 69 and addressed the Committee.

The Chairman invited Hon Fred LI to speak on the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs' amendment as well as his own proposed amendment. She added, however, that Hon Fred LI might not move his proposed amendment unless the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs' amendment was not agreed.

Hon Fred LI spoke on the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs' amendment as well as his own proposed amendment.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs replied.

A Member spoke on the amendment and the proposed amendment.

Question on the amendment to clause 69 moved by the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs put.

Hon James TO claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that 48 Members were present, 33 were in favour of the amendment and 14 against it. (Voting record in Appendix 29.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of the Members present, she declared that the amendment was agreed.

The Chairman stated that Hon Fred LI might not move his amendment to clause 69 since it was inconsistent with the decision already taken.

Hon Ronald ARCULLI moved further amendment to clause 69 and addressed the Committee.

A Member and the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs spoke on the amendment.

Hon Ronald ARCULLI replied.

Question on the amendment put.

Hon Christine LOH claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 29 were present, 21 were in favour of the amendment and eight against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 22 were present, 11 were in favour of the amendment and 10 against it. (Voting record in Appendix 30.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was negatived.

Question that clause 69, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

Question that clause 86 and schedule 6 stand part of the Bill proposed.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs moved amendments to clause 86 and schedule 6 and addressed the Committee.

Question on the amendments put and agreed to.

Hon Fred LI moved an amendment to section 12 of schedule 6 and addressed the Committee.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs spoke on the amendment.

Hon Fred LI replied.

Question on the amendment put.

Hon James TO claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 29 were present, eight were in favour of the amendment and 21 against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 22 were present, eight were in favour of the amendment and 13 against it. (Voting record in Appendix 31.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was negatived.

Question that clause 86 and schedule 6, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs moved amendments to clause 2 and addressed the Committee.

Question on the amendments put and agreed to.

Question that clause 2, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

Question that clauses 27, 32, 37, 38, 39, 68 and 77 stand part of the Bill proposed.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs moved amendments to clauses 27, 32, 38, 39, 68 and 77 and the deletion of clause 37 and addressed the Committee.

Question on the amendments put and agreed to.

The Chairman stated that as the amendment to clause 37, which dealt with deletion, had been agreed, clause 37 would therefore be deleted from the Bill.

Question that clauses 27, 32, 38, 39, 68 and 77, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

New clauses 27A, 34A, 38A and 84A read the first time.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs moved the Second Reading of new clauses 27A, 34A, 38A and 84A and addressed the Committee.

Question on the Second Reading of new clauses 27A, 34A, 38A and 84A proposed, put and agreed to.

New clauses 27A, 34A, 38A and 84A read the second time.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs moved the addition of new clauses 27A, 34A, 38A and 84A to the Bill.

Question on the addition proposed, put and agreed to.

New clause 69A read the first time.

Hon Andrew CHENG moved the Second Reading of new clause 69A and addressed the Committee.

Question on the Second Reading of new clause 69A proposed.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs spoke on the motion.

Hon Andrew CHENG replied.

Question on the Second Reading of the new clause 69A put.

Hon LEE Wing-tat claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 26 were present, four were in favour of the motion and 22 against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 23 were present, 10 were in favour of the motion and 12 against it. (Voting record in Appendix 32.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the motion was negatived.

New clause 70A read the first time.

Hon LEE Wing-tat moved the Second Reading of new clause 70A and addressed the Committee.

Question on the Second Reading of new clause 70A proposed.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs spoke on the motion.

Hon LEE Wing-tat replied.

Question on the Second Reading of the new clause 70A put.

Hon LEE Wing-tat claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

The Chairman announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 25 were present, seven were in favour of the motion and 18 against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 23 were present, eight were in favour of the motion and 14 against it. (Voting record in Appendix 33.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the motion was negatived.

Question that the schedules 1, 2 and 5 stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

The Council then resumed.

Third Reading

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs reported that

    the District Councils Bill

had passed through Committee with amendments. He moved that the Bill be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the Third Reading proposed and put.

Hon LEE Wing-tat claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that 58 Members were present, 38 were in favour of the motion and 19 against it. (Voting record in Appendix 34.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of the Members present, she declared that the motion was carried.

Bill read the third time and passed.

Motions

Proposed resolution under the Factories and Industrial Undertakings Ordinance and the Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance

The Secretary for Education and Manpower moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

Resolved that the Construction Sites (Safety) (Amendment) Regulation 1998, made by the Commissioner for Labour on 22 September 1998, be approved, subject to the following amendments -

  1. by deleting section 2(c);

  2. in section 3, in the proposed regulation 38H(1)(c), by deleting "reasonable" and substituting "reasonably practicable";

  3. by adding -

    "3A. Keeping of records

    Regulation 67(1) is amended -

    1. by repealing "scaffold,";

    2. in subparagraph (b), by repealing "or scaffold".";

  4. in section 4(b) -

    1. in subparagraph (i), by deleting "or (4)";

    2. by adding -

        "(ia) in subparagraph (d), by adding "38F(4)," after "regulation";";

    3. in subparagraph (ii), by deleting ", (2) or (3), 38B(1), 38C, 38D, 38G";

    4. in subparagraph (iii)(A), by adding "and substituting "38A(2) or (3), 38B(1), 38C, 38D or 38G"" before the semicolon.

Question on the motion proposed.

Ten Members spoke on the motion.

The Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

Question on the motion put.

Hon LAU Chin-shek claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that 57 Members were present, 36 were in favour of the motion and 20 against it. (Voting record in Appendix 35.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of the Members present, she declared that the motion was carried.

Proposed resolution under the Public Finance Ordinance

The Secretary for the Treasury moved the motion in Appendix 36 and addressed the Council.

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

Members' Motions Civil service's culture and efficiency

Hon Eric LI moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That in the light of the conclusions and recommendations contained in the Reports of Public Accounts Committee upon the Director of Audit's Report Nos. 30 and 31, this Council urges the Government to take note of the views expressed by Members of this Council on the culture, efficiency and frugality of the civil service.

At 8:10 am, the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

Question on the motion proposed.

Nine Members spoke on the motion.

At 9:06 am, the President resumed the chair.

Another seven Members and the Chief Secretary for Administration spoke on the motion.

Hon Eric LI replied.

Question on the motion put and agreed to.

The President stated that Dr Hon HO Chung-tai had just informed her that he had voted in favour of the amendment to subclause 1 of clause 83 of the District Councils Bill moved by the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs. However, the voting record showed that he had not cast his vote on that amendment. The President stated that according to the Rules of Procedure, when a Member found out that his/her vote had been counted wrongly, he/she might claim to have his/her vote altered before the President or Chairman declared the result of the division. On this occasion, she realized that the Member had had no means of knowing that his vote had not been counted. However, as she had already announced the results, they could not be altered. In order to enable the Member to keep a record of how he had cast his vote, she ordered that the incident be recorded in the official record of proceedings of this Council Meeting. Vote of no confidence in the Secretary for Justice

Hon Margaret NG moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That this Council has no confidence in the Secretary for Justice.

Question on the motion proposed.

The Secretary for Justice and the Director of Public Prosecutions spoke on the motion.

32 Members spoke on the motion.

The Secretary for Justice and the Chief Secretary for Administration spoke on the motion.

Hon Margaret NG replied.

Question on the motion put.

Hon Margaret NG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

As the Electronic Voting System had broken down, the President ordered the manual counting of votes.

The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 29 were present, six were in favour of the motion, 16 against it and seven abstained; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 30 were present, 15 were in favour of the motion, 13 against it and one abstained. (Voting record in Appendix 37.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the motion was negatived.

Next Meeting

The President declared that the next meeting of the Council would be held on 24 March 1999 at 2:30 pm.

The Council was adjourned at 2:39 pm on 11 March 1999.


(Mrs Rita FAN)

President

Council Chamber

Hong Kong