Council meeting (Minutes) 13 Jan 99

LC Paper No. CB(3) 1097/98-99

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

MINUTES
No. 22
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Minutes of the meeting held on Wednesday 13 January 1999 at 2:30 pm
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Members present:

President
The Hon Mrs Rita FAN, GBS, JP
The Hon Kenneth TING Woo-shou, JP
The Hon James TIEN Pei-chun, JP
The Hon David CHU Yu-lin
The Hon HO Sai-chu, JP
The Hon Cyd HO Sau-lan
The Hon Edward HO Sing-tin, JP
The Hon Albert HO Chun-yan
The Hon Michael HO Mun-ka
Dr the Hon Raymond HO Chung-tai, JP
The Hon LEE Wing-tat
The Hon LEE Cheuk-yan
The Hon Martin LEE Chu-ming, SC, JP
The Hon Eric LI Ka-cheung, JP
The Hon LEE Kai-ming, JP
Dr the Hon David LI Kwok-po, JP
The Hon Fred LI Wah-ming
Dr the Hon LUI Ming-wah, JP
The Hon NG Leung-sing
Prof the Hon NG Ching-fai
The Hon Margaret NG
The Hon Mrs Selina CHOW LIANG Shuk-yee, JP
The Hon Ronald ARCULLI, JP
The Hon MA Fung-kwok
The Hon James TO Kun-sun
The Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong
The Hon Ambrose CHEUNG Wing-sum, JP
The Hon HUI Cheung-ching
The Hon Christine LOH
The Hon CHAN Kwok-keung
The Hon CHAN Yuen-han
The Hon Bernard CHAN
The Hon CHAN Wing-chan
The Hon CHAN Kam-lam
Dr the Hon LEONG Che-hung, JP
The Hon Mrs Sophie LEUNG LAU Yau-fun, JP
The Hon LEUNG Yiu-chung
The Hon Gary CHENG Kai-nam
The Hon SIN Chung-kai
The Hon Andrew WONG Wang-fat, JP
Dr the Hon Philip WONG Yu-hong
The Hon WONG Yung-kan
The Hon Jasper TSANG Yok-sing, JP
The Hon Howard YOUNG, JP
Dr the Hon YEUNG Sum
The Hon YEUNG Yiu-chung
The Hon LAU Chin-shek, JP
The Hon LAU Kong-wah
The Hon LAU Wong-fat, GBS, JP
The Hon Mrs Miriam LAU Kin-yee, JP
The Hon Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen, JP
The Hon Emily LAU Wai-hing, JP
The Hon CHOY So-yuk
The Hon Andrew CHENG Kar-foo
The Hon SZETO Wah
The Hon LAW Chi-kwong, JP
The Hon TAM Yiu-chung, JP
The Hon FUNG Chi-kin
Dr the Hon TANG Siu-tong, JP

Member absent:

The Hon Timothy FOK Tsun-ting, JP

Public officers attending:

The Honourable Mrs Anson CHAN, JP: The Chief Secretary for Administration
The Honourable Donald TSANG Yam-kuen, JP: The Financial Secretary
The Honourable Elsie LEUNG Oi-sie, JP: The Secretary for Justice
Mr Michael SUEN Ming-yeung, JP: Secretary for Constitutional Affairs
Mr Dominic WONG Shing-wah, JP: Secretary for Housing
Mrs Katherine FOK LO Shiu-ching, JP: Secretary for Health and Welfare
Mr Joseph WONG Wing-ping, GBS, JP: Secretary for Education and Manpower
Miss Denise YUE Chung-yee, JP: Secretary for the Treasury
Mr LAM Woon-kwong, JP: Secretary for the Civil Service
Mr Stephen IP Shu-kwan, JP: Secretary for Economic Services
Mr Benedict KWONG Hon-sang, JP: Secretary for Works
Mrs Regina IP LAU Suk-yee, JP: Secretary for Security
Mr Kevin HO Chi-ming, JP: Secretary for Transport

Clerks in attendance:

Mr Ricky FUNG Choi-cheung, JP,: Secretary General
Ms Pauline NG Man-wah,: Assistant Secretary General (1)
Mrs Justina LAM CHENG Bo-ling,: Assistant Secretary General (2)

Papers

The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure:

Subsidiary Legislation
1.	Food Business (Regional Council) (Amendment) (No.3) Bylaw 1998	1/99
2.	Statutes of the Chinese University of Hong Kong (Amendment) (No.2) Statute 1998	2/99
3.	Veterinary Surgeons Registration Ordinance (Cap. 529) (Commencement) Notice 1999	3/99
4.	Medical Laboratory Technologists (Registration and Disciplinary Procedure) (Amendment) Regulation 1997; Physiotherapists (Registration and Disciplinary Procedure) (Amendment) Regulation 1997; Radiographers (Registration and Disciplinary Procedure) (Amendment) Regulation 1997 Corrigendum	4/99
5.	Medical Laboratory Technologists (Registration and Disciplinary Procedure) (Amendment) Regulation 1999	5/99
6.	Physiotherapists (Registration and Disciplinary Procedure) (Amendment) Regulation 1999	6/99
7.	Radiographers (Registration and Disciplinary Procedure) (Amendment) Regulation 1999	7/99

Sessional Paper

No.83

Lingnan College Annual Report 1997-98 and Lingnan College Financial Report for the year ended 30 June 1998

Reports

	1.	Report of the Bills Committee on Evidence (Amendment) Bill 1998
	2.	Report of the Bills Committee on Business Registration (Amendment) Bill 1998

Questions

The President reminded Members that the electronic system for registering Members' wishes to ask supplementaries would continue to be put on trial during question time at the meeting.

1. Hon Ambrose LAU asked Question 1.

The Secretary for Economic Services replied.

Five Members asked supplementaries. The Secretary for Economic Services and the Secretary for Housing replied.

2. Hon James TIEN asked Question 2.

The Secretary for the Civil Service replied.

Five Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for the Civil Service replied.

3. Hon CHENG Kai-nam asked Question 3.

The Secretary for Transport replied.

Eight Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Transport replied.

4. Hon MA Fung-kwok asked Question 4.

The Secretary for Security replied.

Six Members asked supplementaries. The Secretary for Security and the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs replied.

5. Hon Andrew CHENG asked Question 5.

The Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

Seven Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

6. Hon Kenneth TING asked Question 6.

The Secretary for the Treasury replied.

Four Members asked supplementaries. The Secretary for the Treasury and the Secretary for Works replied.

Written replies to Questions 7 to 20 were tabled for Members information.

Bills

Human Organ Transplant (Amendment) Bill 1999

First Reading

The Bill was read the first time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Rule 53(3) of the Rules of Procedure.

Second Reading

The Secretary for Health and Welfare moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee.

Evidence (Amendment) Bill 1998

Resumption of Second Reading debate

The debate on the Second Reading which had been moved on 15 July 1998 resumed.

Hon Margaret NG, Chairman of the Bills Committee on Evidence (Amendment) Bill 1998, addressed the Council on the Report of the Bills Committee on the Bill.

The Secretary for Justice replied.

Question on the Second Reading put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

Committee Stage

The Council went into Committee and considered the Evidence (Amendment) Bill 1998.

Question that clauses 1 and 3 to 7 stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

Question that clause 2 stand part of the Bill proposed.

The Secretary for Justice moved amendments to clause 2 and addressed the Committee.

A Member spoke on the amendments.

Question on the amendments put and agreed to.

Question that clause 2, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

Question that the schedule stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

The Council then resumed.

Third Reading

The Secretary for Justice reported that

the Evidence (Amendment) Bill 1998

had passed through Committee with amendments. She moved that the Bill be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the Third Reading proposed, put and agreed to.

Bill read the third time and passed.

Business Registration (Amendment) Bill 1998

Resumption of Second Reading debate

The debate on the Second Reading which had been moved on 11 November 1998 resumed.

Hon SIN Chung-kai, Chairman of the Bills Committee on Business Registration (Amendment) Bill 1998, addressed the Council on the Report of the Bills Committee on the Bill.

The Secretary for the Treasury replied.

Question on the Second Reading put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

Committee Stage

The Council went into Committee and considered the Business Registration (Amendment) Bill 1998.

Question that clauses 1 to 5 and 7 to 19 stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

Question that clause 6 stand part of the Bill proposed.

The Secretary for the Treasury moved an amendment to clause 6 and addressed the Committee.

Question on the amendment put and agreed to.

Question that clause 6, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

The Council then resumed.

Third Reading

The Secretary for the Treasury reported that

the Business Registration (Amendment) Bill 1998

had passed through Committee with amendment. She moved that the Bill be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the Third Reading proposed, put and agreed to.

Bill read the third time and passed.

Members' Motions

Review of the Comprehensive Social Security Assistance Scheme

Dr Hon YEUNG Sum moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That this Council is disappointed that under the pretext of helping CSSA recipients to become self-reliant, the Government's review of the Comprehensive Social Security Assistance (CSSA) Scheme is in effect to tighten the Scheme; at the same time, this Council urges the Government to adopt the following measures in order to attain its established policy objectives and continue to provide the necessary support to CSSA recipients:

1. to withdraw the proposal for reducing the CSSA standard rates for three-person households;

2. to continue to provide the various special grants to CSSA recipients, including the burial grant and the grant for spectacles;

3. to redeploy the resources proposed by the Government for arranging unpaid work for CSSA recipients to provide comprehensive employment services, in order to make optimum use of these resources;

4. to provide comprehensive employment services to CSSA recipients, including assessment of employment skills, provision of training and employment counselling service; and

5. to withdraw the proposal that rigidly requires CSSA single-parents to seek full-time employment when their youngest child reaches the age of 12, and to allow these parents to take up part-time jobs, receive education or training.

Question on Dr Hon YEUNG Sum's motion proposed.

The President stated that Hon CHAN Kam-lam would move an amendment to the motion. In accordance with the Rules of Procedure, the motion and the amendment would be debated together in a joint debate.

Hon CHAN Kam-lam moved the following amendment to Dr Hon YEUNG Sum's motion and addressed the Council:

To delete "at the same time," and to add "to implement a " re-employment support scheme", so as to separately deal with two services, namely unemployment assistance and social security and, at the same time," after "this Council urges the Government".

Question on Hon CHAN Kam-lam's amendment to Dr Hon YEUNG Sum's motion proposed.

Nine Members spoke on the motion and the amendment.

At 6:07 pm, the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

Another eight Members spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Dr Hon YEUNG Sum spoke on the amendment.

At 7:00 pm, the President resumed the chair.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare spoke on the motion and the amendment.

The Secretary for Education and Manpower sought the permission of the President for him to speak, without notice, on the motion and the amendment. The President permitted his request. He then spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Hon Andrew CHENG sought the President's permission for him to elucidate on some points he had made earlier which had been misunderstood by another Member. The President stated that Hon Andrew CHENG should have done so immediately after the Member had spoken, and should not have waited until this point in time. She disallowed Hon Andrew CHENG's request.

Question on Hon CHAN Kam-lam's amendment to Dr Hon YEUNG Sum's motion put.

The President ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 26 were present, three were in favour of the amendment, 18 against it and five abstained; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 26 were present, 11 were in favour of the amendment, one against it and 13 abstained. (Voting record in Appendix I.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was negatived.

Dr Hon YEUNG Sum replied.

Question on Dr Hon YEUNG Sum's original motion put.

Dr Hon YEUNG Sum claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 26 were present, nine were in favour of the original motion, 14 against it and three abstained; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 27 were present, 21 were in favour of the original motion, one against it and four abstained. (Voting record in Appendix II.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the original motion was negatived.

Developing continuing education

Hon TAM Yiu-chung moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That, in order to enhance the competitiveness of Hong Kong people individually and as a community, this Council urges the Special Administrative Region Government to conduct a study on the establishment of a continuing education commission, to review the existing continuing education mechanism, to formulate both long-term and short-term objectives and strategies for the development of continuing education, to institute a transparent mechanism for the accreditation of academic qualifications as well as an integrated qualification ladder, to set up a fund for the development of continuing education, to support and assist organisations and institutions to provide a variety of learning programmes, to encourage employers to increase investment in human resources, and to promote learning incentive schemes to encourage people to actively pursue further studies, so as to create a liberal and open learning environment, motivate individuals to learn on their own initiative, and facilitate the development of Hong Kong into a learning-based community.

Question on the motion proposed.

15 Members and the Secretary for Education and Manpower spoke on the motion.

Hon TAM Yiu-chung replied.

Question on the motion put and agreed to.

Next Meeting

The President declared that the next meeting of the Council would be held on 14 January 1999 at 3:00 pm.

The Council was adjourned at 9:38 pm.

(Mrs Rita FAN)

President

Council Chamber

Hong Kong

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

MINUTES No. 22 ___________ Minutes of the meeting held on Wednesday 13 January 1999 at 2:30 pm ___________

MINUTES
No. 22
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Minutes of the meeting held on Wednesday 13 January 1999 at 2:30 pm
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