Council meeting (Minutes) 15 Jul 98

LC Paper No. CB(3) 80/98-99

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

MINUTES

No. 3

Minutes of the meeting held on Wednesday 15 July 1998 at 2:30 pm

Members present:

President
The Hon Mrs Rita FAN, GBS, JP
The Hon Kenneth TING Woo-shou, JP
The Hon James TIEN Pei-chun, JP
The Hon David CHU Yu-lin
The Hon HO Sai-chu, JP
The Hon Cyd HO Sau-lan
The Hon Edward HO Sing-tin, JP
The Hon Albert HO Chun-yan
The Hon Michael HO Mun-ka
Dr the Hon Raymond HO Chung-tai, JP
The Hon LEE Wing-tat
The Hon LEE Cheuk-yan
The Hon Martin LEE Chu-ming, SC, JP
The Hon Eric LI Ka-cheung, JP
The Hon LEE Kai-ming, JP
The Hon Fred LI Wah-ming
The Hon NG Leung-sing
Prof the Hon NG Ching-fai
The Hon Margaret NG
The Hon Mrs Selina CHOW LIANG Shuk-yee, JP
The Hon Ronald ARCULLI, JP
The Hon MA Fung-kwok
The Hon James TO Kun-sun
The Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong
The Hon Ambrose CHEUNG Wing-sum, JP
The Hon HUI Cheung-ching
The Hon Christine LOH
The Hon CHAN Kwok-keung
The Hon CHAN Yuen-han
The Hon Bernard CHAN
The Hon CHAN Wing-chan
The Hon CHAN Kam-lam
Dr the Hon LEONG Che-hung, JP
The Hon Mrs Sophie LEUNG LAU Yau-fun, JP
The Hon LEUNG Yiu-chung
The Hon Gary CHENG Kai-nam
The Hon SIN Chung-kai
The Hon Andrew WONG Wang-fat, JP
Dr the Hon Philip WONG Yu-hong
The Hon WONG Yung-kan
The Hon Jasper TSANG Yok-sing, JP
The Hon Howard YOUNG, JP
Dr the Hon YEUNG Sum
The Hon YEUNG Yiu-chung
The Hon CHIM Pui-chung
The Hon LAU Chin-shek, JP
The Hon LAU Kong-wah
The Hon LAU Wong-fat, GBS, JP
The Hon Mrs Miriam LAU Kin-yee, JP
The Hon Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen, JP
The Hon Emily LAU Wai-hing, JP
Dr the Hon TANG Siu-tong, JP
The Hon CHOY So-yuk
The Hon Andrew CHENG Kar-foo
The Hon SZETO Wah
The Hon Timothy FOK Tsun-ting, JP
The Hon LAW Chi-kwong, JP
The Hon TAM Yiu-chung, JP

Members absent: Dr the Hon David LI Kwok-po, JP
Dr the Hon LUI Ming-wah, JP

Public officers attending:

The Honourable Mrs Anson CHAN, JP: The Chief Secretary for Administration
The Honourable Donald TSANG Yam-kuen, JP: The Financial Secretary
Mr I G M WINGFIELD, JP: The Secretary for Justice
Mr Michael SUEN Ming-yeung, JP: Secretary for Constitutional Affairs
Mr CHAU Tak-hay, JP: Secretary for Trade and Industry
Mr Nicholas NG Wing-fui, JP: Secretary for Transport
Mrs Katherine FOK LO Shiu-ching, JP: Secretary for Health and Welfare
Mr Peter LAI Hing-ling, JP: Secretary for Security
Mr Bowen LEUNG Po-wing, JP: Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands
Miss Denise YUE Chung-yee, JP: Secretary for the Treasury
Mr Stephen IP Shu-kwan, JP: Secretary for Economic Services
Mr Benedict KWONG Hon-sang, JP: Secretary for Works
Mr David LAN Hong-tsung, JP: Secretary for Home Affairs
Mr Matthew CHEUNG Kin-chung, JP: Secretary for Education and Manpower

Clerks in attendance:

Mr Ricky FUNG Choi-cheung, JP,: Secretary General
Mr LAW Kam-sang, JP,: Deputy Secretary General
Mr Ray CHAN Yum-mou,: Assistant Secretary General (3)

Papers

The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure:

Subsidiary Legislation	L.N. No.
1. Director of Intellectual Property (Establishment) Ordinance (Amendment of Schedule 1) Order 1998	272/98
2. Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance (Public Pleasure Grounds) (Amendment of Fourth Schedule) (No.2) Order 1998	273/98
3. High Court Suitors' Funds (Amendment) Rules 1998	274/98
4. Rules of the High Court (Amendment) (No.2) Rules 1998	275/98
5. Hire Car Permits (Limitation on Numbers) (Amendment) Notice 1998	276/98
6. Road Traffic (Safety Equipment) (Amendment) Regulation 1998 (L.N. 114 of 1998) (Commencement) Notice 1998	277/98
7. Hong Kong Airport (Control of Obstructions) (Repeal) Order 1998 (L.N. 116 of 1998) (Commencement) Notice 1998	278/98
8. Dangerous Drugs (Amendment) (No.2) Ordinance 1994 (63 of 1994) (Commencement) Notice 1997? Corrigendum	279/98
9. Dangerous Drugs (Amendment) (No.2) Ordinance 1994 (63 of 1994) (Commencement) Notice 1998	280/98

Sessional Papers

No. 5-	Report of changes to the approved Estimates of Expenditure approved during the final quarter of 1997-98 (Public Finance Ordinance: Section 8)
No. 6-	Sir Robert Black Trust Fund Annual Report for the year 1 April 1997 to 31 March 1998

Questions

Question permitted by the President under Rule 24(4) of the Rules of Procedure

Hon James TIEN asked whether the Government knew if Hong Kong Air Cargo Terminals Limited was in a definite position to provide normal and efficient air freight services on 19 July.

The Secretary for Economic Services replied.

12 Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Economic Services replied.

1. Hon Fred LI asked Question 1.

The Secretary for Home Affairs replied.

Four Members asked supplementaries. The Secretary for Home Affairs and the Secretary for Works replied.

2. Hon CHOY So-yuk asked Question 2.

The Secretary for Security replied.

Six Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Security replied.

3. Hon Andrew CHENG asked Question 3.

The Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

Five Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

4. Hon LEUNG Yiu-chung asked Question 4.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

Seven Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

5. Hon Michael HO asked Question 5.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

Five Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

6. Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong asked Question 6.

The Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

Eight Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

Written replies to Questions 7 to 20 were tabled for Members' information.

Bills

First Reading

Evidence (Amendment) Bill 1998 Supplementary Appropriation (1997-98) Bill 1998

The Bills were read the first time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Rule 53(3) of the Rules of Procedure.

Second Reading

Evidence (Amendment) Bill 1998

The Secretary for Justice moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee.

Supplementary Appropriation (1997-98) Bill 1998

The Secretary for the Treasury moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee.

Members' Motions

Direct elections

Hon Andrew CHENG moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That this Council is of the view that all Members of the Second Legislative Council of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region should be directly elected in the year 2000, and that the Chief Executive for the second term of office should be directly elected in the year 2002.

Question on Hon Andrew CHENG's motion proposed. The President stated that Hon CHENG Kai-nam and Hon Christine LOH had separately given notice to move amendments to the motion. In accordance with the Rules of Procedure, the motion and the two proposed amendments would be debated together in a joint debate.

Hon CHENG Kai-nam and Hon Christine LOH spoke on the motion and their proposed amendments respectively.

12 Members spoke on the motion and the amendments.

In response to a point of order raised by Hon Andrew WONG, the President suspended the meeting at 6:50 pm.

At 7:23 pm, the Council resumed.

The President stated that when Hon Emily LAU clarified the meaning of "personal interests" referred to in her speech, she was only stating her opinion and had not imputed improper motives to another Member. The President therefore ruled that Hon Emily LAU had not contravened Rule 41(5) of the Rules of Procedure.

Another 11 Members spoke on the motion and the amendments.

Hon Andrew CHENG spoke on the amendments.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs spoke on the motion and the amendments.

Hon CHENG Kai-nam moved the following amendment to Hon Andrew CHENG's motion:

To delete "is of the view that all Members of the Second Legislative Council" and substitute with "urges the Government"; and delete "should be directly elected in the year 2000, and that the Chief Executive for the second term of office should be directly elected in the year 2002" and substitute with "to expeditiously conduct a comprehensive and in-depth review of the constitutional structure and to consult the public extensively, so as to determine whether or not to advance the implementation of direct elections of all Members of the Legislative Council and the Chief Executive".

Question on Hon CHENG Kai-nam's amendment to Hon Andrew CHENG's motion proposed and put.

The President ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 26 were present, 17 were in favour of the amendment and eight against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 29 were present, 11 were in favour of the amendment and 17 against it. (Voting record in Appendix I.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was negatived.

Hon Christine LOH moved the following amendment to Hon Andrew CHENG's motion:

To add "; and to this end, this Council urges the Chief Executive to set up forthwith a constitutional convention in which relevant constitutional issues can be discussed expeditiously and in an open and organized manner" after "and that the Chief Executive for the second term of office should be directly elected in the year 2002".

Question on Hon Christine LOH's amendment to Hon Andrew CHENG's motion proposed and put.

Hon Christine LOH claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to a divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 26 were present, five were in favour of the amendment and 21 against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 30 were present, 14 were in favour of the amendment and 15 against it. (Voting record in Appendix II.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was negatived.

Hon Andrew CHENG replied.

Question on Hon Andrew CHENG's original motion put.

Hon Andrew CHENG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 25 were present, five were in favour of the motion and 20 against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 30 were present, 15 were in favour of the motion and 14 against it. (Voting record in Appendix III.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that Hon Andrew CHENG's original motion was negatived.

Rescuing the service industry

Hon CHOY So-yuk moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That, despite the fact that the service industry is an important economic pillar of Hong Kong, prolonged disregard on the part of the Hong Kong Government has resulted in numerous flaws in the legislation and policies on many trades, leading to an increasing reduction of its competitiveness internationally, which is aggravated by the exacerbated plight of a considerable number of main service trades in the wake of the Asian financial turmoil, this Council urges the Government to face up to this problem by consulting various trades and industries to seek their views and adopt effective and targeted policies and measures immediately, in order to improve the business environment of the service industry and relieve its plight, as well as facilitate expeditiously its development into a high value-added industry, and raise its service quality and competitiveness, thereby reinforcing Hong Kong's position as an international service centre.

Question on Hon CHOY So-yuk's motion proposed. The President stated that Hon SIN Chung-kai had given notice to move an amendment to the motion. In accordance with the Rules of Procedure, the motion and the proposed amendment would be debated together in a joint debate.

Hon SIN Chung-kai moved the following amendment to Hon CHOY So-yuk's motion and addressed the Council:

To delete "prolonged disregard on the part of the Hong Kong Government has resulted in"; to insert "exist" before "in the legislation and policies on many trades,"; to delete "as well as" from "as well as facilitate expeditiously its development into a high value-added industry,"; to insert "promote better use of information technology by the industry, enhance productivity and" before "facilitate expeditiously its development into a high value-added industry,"; to delete "expeditiously" from "facilitate expeditiously its development into a high value-added industry"; to delete "and" from "and raise its service quality and competitiveness" and substitute with "so as to"; to add "; at the same time, with regard to the financial services sector, this Council expresses disappointment that officials of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region Government have made self-conflicting remarks and inconsistent financial policies, and urges the Government to learn the lesson and avoid making the same mistakes" after "raise its service quality and competitiveness"; to delete "reinforcing" and substitute with "restoring"; and to add "financial, trade and" after "Hong Kong's position as an international".

Question on Hon SIN Chung-kai's amendment to Hon CHOY So-yuk's motion proposed.

At 9:48 pm, the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

Two Members spoke on the motion and the amendment.

The Financial Secretary drew the attention of the President's Deputy to the absence of a quorum. The President's Deputy directed the Clerk to summon Members to the meeting. A quorum was then present.

Another Member spoke on the motion and the amendment.

The Financial Secretary again drew the attention of the President's Deputy to the absence of a quorum. The President's Deputy directed the Clerk to summon Members to the meeting. A quorum was then present.

Another four Members spoke on the motion and the amendment.

At 10:35 pm, the President resumed the chair.

Four further Members spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Hon CHOY So-yuk spoke on the amendment.

The Financial Secretary spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Hon Mrs Selina CHOW drew the attention of the President to the absence of a quorum. The President directed the Clerk to summon Members to the meeting. A quorum was then present.

Question on Hon SIN Chung-kai's amendment to Hon CHOY So-yuk's motion put.

Hon Andrew WONG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 19 were present, 13 were in favour of the amendment, four against it and two abstaining; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 23 were present, 14 were in favour of the amendment and seven against it. (Voting record in Appendix IV.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was agreed.

Hon CHOY So-yuk replied.

Question on Hon CHOY So-yuk's motion as amended by Hon SIN Chung-kai put and agreed to.

Next Meeting

The President declared that the next meeting of the Council would be held on 22 July 1998 at 2:30 pm.

The Council was adjourned at 11:50 pm.

(Mrs Rita FAN)
President

Council Chamber
Hong Kong