Council meeting (Minutes) 29 Jul 98

LC Paper No.CB(3) 144/98-99

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

MINUTES

No.5

Minutes of the meeting held on Wednesday 29 July 1998 at 2:30 pm

Members present:

President
The Hon Mrs Rita FAN, GBS, JP
The Hon Kenneth TING Woo-shou, JP
The Hon James TIEN Pei-chun, JP
The Hon David CHU Yu-lin
The Hon HO Sai-chu, JP
The Hon Cyd HO Sau-lan
The Hon Edward HO Sing-tin, JP
The Hon Albert HO Chun-yan
The Hon Michael HO Mun-ka
Dr The Hon Raymond HO Chung-tai, JP
The Hon LEE Wing-tat
The Hon LEE Cheuk-yan
The Hon Martin LEE Chu-ming, SC, JP
The Hon Eric LI Ka-cheung, JP
The Hon LEE Kai-ming, JP
Dr The Hon David LI Kwok-po, JP
The Hon Fred LI Wah-ming
Dr The Hon LUI Ming-wah, JP
The Hon NG Leung-sing
Prof The Hon NG Ching-fai
The Hon Margaret NG
The Hon Mrs Selina CHOW LIANG Shuk-yee, JP
The Hon Ronald ARCULLI, JP
The Hon MA Fung-kwok
The Hon James TO Kun-sun
The Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong
The Hon Ambrose CHEUNG Wing-sum, JP
The Hon HUI Cheung-ching
The Hon Christine LOH
The Hon CHAN Kwok-keung
The Hon CHAN Yuen-han
The Hon Bernard CHAN
The Hon CHAN Wing-chan
The Hon CHAN Kam-lam
Dr The Hon LEONG Che-hung, JP
The Hon Mrs Sophie LEUNG LAU Yau-fun, JP
The Hon LEUNG Yiu-chung
The Hon Gary CHENG Kai-nam
The Hon SIN Chung-kai
The Hon Andrew WONG Wang-fat, JP
Dr The Hon Philip WONG Yu-hong
The Hon WONG Yung-kan
The Hon Jasper TSANG Yok-sing, JP
The Hon Howard YOUNG, JP
Dr The Hon YEUNG Sum
The Hon YEUNG Yiu-chung
The Hon CHIM Pui-chung
The Hon LAU Chin-shek, JP
The Hon LAU Kong-wah
The Hon LAU Wong-fat, GBS, JP
The Hon Mrs Miriam LAU Kin-yee, JP
The Hon Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen, JP
The Hon Emily LAU Wai-hing, JP
Dr The Hon TANG Siu-tong, JP
The Hon CHOY So-yuk
The Hon Andrew CHENG Kar-foo
The Hon SZETO Wah
The Hon Timothy FOK Tsun-ting, JP
The Hon LAW Chi-kwong, JP
The Hon TAM Yiu-chung, JP

Public officers attending:

The Honourable Mrs Anson CHAN, JP: The Chief Secretary for Administration
The Honourable Donald TSANG Yam-kuen, JP: The Financial Secretary
The Honourable Elsie LEUNG Oi-sie, JP: The Secretary for Justice
Mr Michael SUEN Ming-yeung, JP: Secretary for Constitutional Affairs
Mr CHAU Tak-hay, JP: Secretary for Trade and Industry
Mr Rafael HUI Si-yan, GBS, JP: Secretary for Financial Services
Mr Joseph WONG Wing-ping, GBS, JP: Secretary for Education and Manpower
Mr Peter LAI Hing-ling, JP: Secretary for Security
Mr Bowen LEUNG Po-wing, JP: Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands
Mr Stephen IP Shu-kwan, JP: Secretary for Economic Services
Mr LEUNG Chin-man, JP: Secretary for Housing
Mr Gregory LEUNG Wing-lup, JP: Secretary for Health and Welfare
Mrs Carrie LAM CHENG Yuet-ngor, JP: Secretary for the Treasury

Clerks in attendance:

Mr Ricky FUNG Choi-cheung, JP,: Secretary General
Mr LAW Kam-sang, JP,: Deputy Secretary General
Mrs Justina LAM CHENG Bo-ling,: Assistant Secretary General (2)

Papers

The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure:

Subsidiary Legislation	L.N. No.
1. Census and Statistics (Monthly Survey of Retail Sales) (Amendment) Order 1998	289/98
2. Census and Statistics (Quarterly Survey of Service Industries) (Amendment) Order 1998	290/98
3. Designation of Libraries (Urban Council Area) (No.2) Order 1998	291/98
4. Mandatory Provident Fund Schemes Ordinance (Cap.485) (Commencement) Notice 1998	292/98
5. Provident Fund Schemes Legislation (Amendment) Ordinance 1998 (4 of 1998) (Commencement) Notice 1998	293/98
6. Mandatory Provident Fund Schemes (General) Regulation (L.N. 201 of 1998) (Commencement) Notice 1998	294/98
7. Dangerous Drugs (Amendment)(No.2) Ordinance 1994 (63 of 1994) (Commencement) Notice 1997? Corrigendum	295/98

Sessional Papers

No.8-	Report by the Commissioner of Police on Police Welfare Fund for the period 1 April 1996 - 31 March 1997
No.9-	Clothing Industry Training Authority Annual Report 1997
No.10-	Report of the Independent Police Complaints Council 1997
No.11-	Independent Commission Against Corruption Complaints Committee Annual Report 1997
No.12-	Statement of Accounts for the Customs and Excise Service Welfare Fund together with the Director of Audit's Report (1997-98)
No.13-	Sir David Trench Fund for Recreation Trustee's Report 1997-98
No.14-	Revised list of works of the Provisional Urban Council for the 1998/99 financial year (during the first quarter ended 30 June 1998)
No.15-	Hong Kong Export Credit Insurance Corporation Annual Report 1997-98
No.16-	1997 Annual Report by the Commissioner of the Independent Commission Against Corruption Hong Kong Special Administrative Region
No.17-	Pneumoconiosis Compensation Fund Board Annual Report 1997
No.18-	Securities and Futures Commission Annual Report 1997 - 1998

Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung presented the Report of the Independent Police Complaints Council 1997 and addressed the Council.

Hon Howard YOUNG presented the Independent Commission Against Corruption Complaints Committee Annual Report 1997 and addressed the Council.

Hon Fred LI presented the 1997 Annual Report by the Commissioner of the Independent Commission Against Corruption Hong Kong Special Administrative Region and addressed the Council.

Questions

1. Hon LEE Cheuk-yan asked Question 1.

The Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

10 Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

2. Hon CHAN Wing-chan asked Question 2.

The Secretary for Economic Services replied.

Four Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Economic Services replied.

In response to a point of order raised by Hon James TO, the President suspended the meeting at 3:36 pm.

At 3:55 pm, the Council resumed.

The President said that Members had been allowed to ask supplementaries because their questions did not contravene Rule 25(1)(g) of the Rules of Procedure. Since the inquiry proceeding of the Commission of Inquiry on the New Airport was judicial proceeding, the Public Officer could choose how to reply. Public Officers would in general answer Members' oral questions and supplementaries at Council meetings, although at times for some reasons they choose not to or to offer written replies. If this Council agreed to the resolution of appointing a select committee on the New Airport later at this meeting, the select Committee would have legal authority to discharge its duties and would not be affected by questions and replies concerning the New Airport at Council meetings.

3. Hon LAU Kong-wah asked Question 3.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

Six Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

4. Hon HUI Cheung-ching asked Question 4.

The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands replied.

Seven Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands replied.

5. Hon YEUNG Yiu-chung asked Question 5.

The Secretary for Security replied.

Six Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Security replied.

6. Hon LAU Chin-shek asked Question 6.

The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands replied.

Four Members asked supplementaries. The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands and the Secretary for the Treasury replied.

Written replies to Questions 7 to 20 were tabled for Members' information.

Bills

First Reading

Securities (Amendment) Bill 1998

The Bill was read the first time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Rule 53(3) of the Rules of Procedure.

Second Reading

Securities (Amendment) Bill 1998

The Secretary for Financial Services moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee.

Resumption of Second Reading debate

Holidays (Amendment) Bill 1998

The President stated that the Secretary for Education and Manpower had withdrawn his notice to resume the Second Reading debate on the Holidays (Amendment) Bill 1998 at this Council meeting. Therefore, this Council would not proceed with further proceedings in respect of the Bill. The Secretary for Education and Manpower would have to follow the procedure in the Rules of Procedure if he wished to resume the second reading debate of the Bill at a future date.

Supplementary Appropriation (1997-98) Bill 1998

The debate on the Second Reading which had been moved on 15 July 1998 resumed.

Question on the Second Reading put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

Committee Stage

The Council went into Committee and considered the Supplementary Appropriation (1997-98) Bill 1998.

Question that clauses 1 and 2 stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

Question that the schedule stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to.

The Council then resumed.

Third Reading

The Secretary for the Treasury reported that

the Supplementary Appropriation (1997-98) Bill 1998

had passed through Committee without amendment. She moved that the Bill be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the Third Reading proposed, put and agreed to.

Bill read the third time and passed.

Motions

Import and Export Ordinance

The Secretary for Trade and Industry moved the following resolution and addressed the Council:

Resolved that the Import and Export (Registration) (Amendment) Regulation 1998, made by the Chief Executive in Council on 21 July 1998, be approved.

Question on the resolution proposed.

A Member spoke on the resolution.

Question on the resolution put and agreed to.

Members' Motions

Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance

Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung moved the following resolution and addressed the Council:

Resolved that -

in relation to the Water Pollution Control (Sewerage) (Amendment) Regulation 1998, published as Legal Notice No.281 of 1998 and laid on the table of the Legislative Council on 22 July 1998, the period referred to in section 34(2) of the Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance (Cap.1) for amending subsidiary legislation be extended under section 34(4) of that Ordinance to the meeting of 9 September 1998;
in relation to the -
1. Census and Statistics (Monthly Survey of Retail Sales) (Amendment) Order 1998, published as Legal Notice No.289 of 1998;
2. Census and Statistics (Quarterly Survey of Service Industries) (Amendment) Order 1998, published as Legal Notice No.290 of 1998;
3. Designation of Libraries (Urban Council Area) (No.2) Order 1998, published as Legal Notice No.291 of 1998;
4. Mandatory Provident Fund Schemes Ordinance (Cap.485) (Commencement) Notice 1998, published as Legal Notice No.292 of 1998;
5. Provident Fund Schemes Legislation (Amendment) Ordinance 1998 (4 of 1998) (Commencement) Notice 1998, published as Legal Notice No.293 of 1998;
6. Mandatory Provident Fund Schemes (General) Regulation (L.N. 201 of 1998) (Commencement) Notice 1998, published as Legal Notice No.294 of 1998; and
7. Dangerous Drugs (Amendment) (No.2) Ordinance 1994 (63 of 1994) (Commencement) Notice 1997 ? Corrigendum, published as Legal Notice No.295 of 1998;

and laid on the table of the Legislative Council on 29 July 1998, the period referred to in section 34(2) of the Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance (Cap.1) for amending subsidiary legislation be extended under section 34(4) of that Ordinance to the meeting of 9 September 1998.

Question on the resolution proposed, put and agreed to.

Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance

Hon LEUNG Yiu-chung moved the following resolution and addressed the Council:

Resolved that the Housing (Amendment) (No.2) Ordinance 1998 (24 of 1998) (Commencement) Notice 1998, published as Legal Notice No.212 of 1998 and laid on the table of the Legislative Council on 2 July 1998, be amended by adding "(other than sections 7 and 8)" after "the Ordinance".

Question on the resolution proposed.

Six Members and the Secretary for Housing spoke on the resolution.

Hon LEUNG Yiu-chung replied.

Question on the resolution put.

Hon LEUNG Yiu-chung claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 25 were present, seven were in favour of the resolution, 17 against it and one abstained; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 29 were present, 19 were in favour of the resolution and nine against it. (Voting record in Appendix I.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the resolution was negatived.

Legislative Council Emblem

Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung moved the following resolution and addressed the Council:

Resolved that the design attached to this resolution be adopted as the emblem of the Legislative Council of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region. (The emblem design attached to this resolution is at Appendix II.)

Question on the resolution proposed.

Four Members spoke on the resolution.

Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung replied.

Question on the resolution put.

The President ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 27 were present, 22 were in favour of the resolution and five against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 29 were present, 13 were in favour of the resolution and 15 against it. (Voting record in Appendix III.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the resolution was negatived.

Appointment of Select Committee

Hon LAU Kong-wah moved the following resolution and addressed the Council:

Resolved that a select committee be appointed to inquire into the circumstances leading to the problems surrounding the commencement of the operation of the new Hong Kong International Airport at Chek Lap Kok since 6 July 1998 and related issues; and that in the performance of its duties the committee be authorised under section 9(2) of the Legislative Council (Powers and Privileges) Ordinance (Cap. 382) to exercise the powers conferred by section 9(1) of that Ordinance.

Question on the resolution proposed.

Four Members spoke on the resolution.

Question on the resolution put and agreed to.

Review of district organisations

Hon Ambrose CHEUNG moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That this Council puts to the Government its views on the Consultation Document on the Review of District Organisations published in June 1998, and urges the Government to fully consult the various sectors of the community before making a final decision on the future development of district organisations.

Question on Hon Ambrose CHEUNG's motion proposed. The President stated that Hon Fred LI and Hon Cyd HO had separately given notice to move amendments to the motion. In accordance with the Rules of Procedure, the motion and the two proposed amendments would be debated together in a joint debate.

Hon Fred LI spoke on the motion and his proposed amendment.

At 6:50 pm, the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

Hon Cyd HO spoke on the motion and her proposed amendment.

Nine Members spoke on the motion and the amendments.

At 8:03 pm, the President resumed the chair.

Another nine Members spoke on the motion and the amendments.

Hon Martin LEE drew the attention of the President to the absence of a quorum. The President directed the Clerk to summon Members to the meeting. A quorum was then present.

13 further Members spoke on the motion and the amendments.

Hon Ambrose CHEUNG spoke on the amendments.

The Secretary for Constitutional Affairs spoke on the motion and the amendments.

Hon Fred LI moved the following amendment to Hon Ambrose CHEUNG's motion:

To delete "this Council puts to the Government its views on" and substitute with ", with regard to"; to delete "and" and substitute with "this Council"; and to add "actively consider the proposal of 'one municipal council and one municipal services department' unanimously put forward by the Provisional Urban Council and the Provisional Regional Council, including charging this municipal council with the responsibility for regulating food safety and environmental hygiene, and to" after "urges the Government to".

Question on Hon Fred LI's amendment to Hon Ambrose CHEUNG's motion proposed and put.

Hon Fred LI claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 24 were present, 16 were in favour of the amendment and eight against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 30 were present, 20 were in favour of the amendment, eight against it and one abstained. (Voting record in Appendix IV.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was agreed.

The President stated that as Hon Fred LI's amendment had been agreed, Hon Cyd HO's amendment could not proceed in its present form. She granted leave for Hon Cyd HO to revise the terms of her amendment.

Hon Cyd HO moved the following revised amendment to Hon Ambrose CHEUNG's motion as amended by Hon Fred LI and addressed the Council:

To add "; this Council also considers that the review should be based on the principles of not reducing the existing powers and functions of district organisations and returning all seats by equal and universal suffrage" after "the future development of district organisations".

Question on Hon Cyd HO's amendment to Hon Ambrose CHEUNG's motion as amended by Hon Fred LI proposed and put.

Hon Cyd HO claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 24 were present, five were in favour of the amendment, 13 against it and six abstained; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 30 were present, 14 were in favour of the amendment, 14 against it and one abstained. (Voting record in Appendix V.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was negatived.

Hon Ambrose CHEUNG replied.

Question on Hon Ambrose CHEUNG's motion as amended by Hon Fred LI put.

Hon Emily LAU claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure.

The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 24 were present, 16 were in favour of the amended motion, five against it and three abstained; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections and by the Election Committee, 30 were present, 20 were in favour of the amended motion, five against it and four abstained. (Voting record in Appendix VI.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that Hon Ambrose CHEUNG's motion as amended by Hon Fred LI was carried.

Central harbour reclamation

Hon Christine LOH moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That this Council recognises, and urges the Government to recognise, that Victoria Harbour is a unique and irreplaceable public asset, that excessive depletion of the harbour is irreversibly damaging both to the natural and human environment of Hong Kong, and that all Hong Kong people have a rightful interest in the harbour; and this Council further urges the Government to withdraw its grossly excessive plans for reclamation in the harbour; specifically, this Council urges the Government to scale down its present central reclamation plans and to ensure that further land development in the central harbour, if any, will be strictly limited, fully justified and openly planned in accordance with the letter and spirit of the Protection of the Harbour Ordinance.

Question on the motion proposed.

A Member spoke on the motion.

At 11:08 pm, the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

Another Member spoke on the motion.

Prof Hon NG Ching-fai drew the attention of the President's Deputy to the absence of a quorum. The President's Deputy directed the Clerk to summon Members to the meeting. A quorum was then present.

Three further Members spoke on the motion.

Hon Bernard CHAN drew the attention of the President's Deputy to the absence of a quorum. The President's Deputy directed the Clerk to summon Members to the meeting. A quorum was then present.

At 11:40 pm, the President resumed the chair.

Seven more Members and the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands spoke on the motion.

Hon Christine LOH replied.

Question on the motion put and agreed to.

Next Meeting

The President declared that the next meeting of the Council would be held on 9 September 1998 at 2:30 pm.

The Council was adjourned at 12:39 am on 30 July 1998.

(Mrs Rita FAN)
President

Council Chamber
Hong Kong