Legislative Council
LC Paper No. CB(2)2758/98-99
(These minutes have been
seen by the Administration)
Ref : CB2/PL/HS
LegCo Panel on Health Services
Minutes of meeting
held on Monday, 14 June 1999 at 8:30 am
in the Chamber of the Legislative Council Building
Members Present :
Hon Michael HO Mun-ka (Chairman)
Dr Hon LEONG Che-hung, JP (Deputy Chairman)
Hon Cyd HO Sau-lan
Hon CHAN Yuen-han
Hon Mrs Sophie LEUNG LAU Yau-fun, JP
Dr Hon YEUNG Sum
Hon YEUNG Yiu-chung
Dr Hon TANG Siu-tong, JP
Hon LAW Chi-kwong, JP
Member Absent :
Hon HO Sai-chu, JP
Public Officers Attending :
All items
Mr Gregory LEUNG
Deputy Secretary for Health and Welfare 1
Miss Linda SO
Assistant Secretary for Health and Welfare
Dr P Y LAM
Deputy Director of Health 2
Item III
Miss Eliza YAU
Principal Assistant Secretary for Health and Welfare (Medical) 1
Dr K H MAK
Consultant (Community Medicine), Department of Health
Miss LAM Kam-fung
Senior Education Officer, Education Department
Miss Ann LAU
Assistant Director, Social Welfare Department
Dr W M KO
Deputy Director (Operations), Hospital Authority
Item IV
Miss Eliza YAU
Principal Assistant Secretary for Health and Welfare (Medical)1
Item V
Mr Eddie POON
Principal Assistant Secretary for Health and Welfare (Medical) 3
Dr W M KO
Deputy Director (Operations), Hospital Authority
Attendance by Invitation :
Item V
Dr LAM Ying-ming
Estate Doctors' Association
Clerk in Attendance :
Ms Doris CHAN
Chief Assistant Secretary (2) 4
Staff in Attendance :
Ms Joanne MAK
Senior Assistant Secretary (2) 4
V. Hong Kong's health care system and the direction of future reform
(LC Paper Nos. CB(2)2266/98-99(05) - (07))
The Chairman informed members that the Hong Kong College of Family
Physicians (HKCPF) had already provided a submission (LC Paper No. CB(2)2266/98-99(06))
to this Panel and it would send representatives to attend the special meeting
scheduled for 28 June 1999 to give their views on the Harvard Report.
2. The Chairman suggested that the views of both the management staff
and the board members of the Hospital Authority (HA) on the Harvard Report
should be sought. He would further liaise with the Clerk on the follow-up
arrangement.
3. Referring to the proposed outline of topics for discussion (LC Paper
No. CB(2)2266/98-99(05)), Dr LEONG Che-hung considered that non-medical
health care professionals such as nurses should also be invited to send
representatives to attend the meetings on the Harvard Report. The
Chairman said that the arrangements had been made for them to attend the
coming meetings.
4. The Chairman welcomed Dr LAM Ying-ming representing the Estate Doctors'
Association (EDA) to attend the meeting. At the Chairman's invitation,
Dr LAM briefed members on the salient points of the EDA's submission, highlighting
that the EDA was concerned about how to improve the professional standards
of private medical practitioners and how to enhance the transparency of
their fee charging.
5. The EDA supported that private medical practitioners should be encouraged
to undergo Continuous Medical Education (CME) as a way to improve their
professional standards. It took the view that the Government should
subsidize the practitioners to attend the CME courses and that the practitioners
should be allowed to undergo CME on a voluntary basis.
6. Dr LAM suggested that in order to increase the incentives of private
medical practitioners to pursue CME, attendance of CME courses should be
made more rewarding. Dr LAM suggested that, for example, the qualifications
obtained on completion of CME courses should be "quotable", that is, these
qualifications could be displayed at clinics or shown on the name cards
of the practitioners concerned. He noted that there was a post-graduate
diploma course on family medicine organized by the Chinese University of
Hong Kong (CUHK). However, on completion of the course, the participants
were advised by the Medical Council of Hong Kong (HKMC) not to quote this
diploma as their additional qualifications because the HKMC considered
that the course was a relatively simple one. Dr LAM commented that
this was disappointing to the participants as the course could not help
to enhance their qualifications. He took the view that there should
be better coordination between the HKMC and the universities in designing
the curricula of CME courses to prevent recurrence of similar problems.
7. For the benefit of raising the overall quality of health care, the
EDA supported strengthening primary health care and promoting the development
of family medicine. These measures, as pointed out earlier on by
the Hong Kong Council of Social Service, would help reducing the need for
hospital admissions and thus the public expenditures on hospital services.
Dr LAM considered there was a need to increase the number of family physicians
as there were only about some 100 of them in Hong Kong against a shortfall
of about 3 000. Moreover, he considered that it was inadequate for
the HA to provide only 20 placements in public hospitals each year for
the training of family physicians and there was an urgent need for allocating
additional resources to train up more family physicians.
8. To facilitate private medical practitioners to receive training on
family medicine, Dr LAM said that the practitioners should be given on-the-job
training so that they needed not give up their private practice while receiving
the training. He opined that the duration of training for family
physicians should not be six years which was unreasonably long. He
favoured the old system under which a private medical practitioner could
become a family physician by passing a qualifying examination. This
system could save a medical practitioner the time that he/she had to spend,
as required under the current system, on clinical training by attaching
to the HA and to an assigned clinical centre. Dr LAM considered that
the duration of the current training could be shortened from six years
to four years without compromising the standards of the graduates.
He further pointed out that no other countries in the world required medical
practitioners to undergo such a long period of training in order to be
family physicians. To substantiate this point, Dr LAM quoted the
articles written by Dr David FANG and Dr LO Wing-lok who had also made
similar points in respect of the appropriate duration of the clinical training
required for family physicians. At the Chairman's request, Dr LAM
agreed to provide the quoted articles to the Panel for reference.
(Post-meeting note : the EDA had provided a paper entitled "How
to tackle the shortage problem of family physicians" which included the
above quoted information. The paper was circulated to members under
LC Paper No. CB(2)2666/98-99(01) on 6 August 1999.)
9. To enhance transparency of private medical practitioners' fee charging,
Dr LAM pointed out that the EDA encouraged doctors to display a scale of
fees at their clinics. It also advised doctors that they should inform
patients well in advance of any additional charges that might be incurred
by services like laboratory tests, small operations or the prescription
of special medicines for the patients. The EDA suggested that the
media should publicize that patients were fully entitled to enquire about
the scale of fees charged by doctors. It also proposed that the Hong
Kong Medical Association and the Consumer Council should jointly conduct
a survey on the scale of fees charged by individual hospitals and publish
the findings.
10. Mr LAW Chi-kwong noted that the HKCFP had recommended to implement
an assessment exercise involving the issuing of a "Certificate of Primary
Medical Care" to private medical practitioners who managed to meet the
required standards. He invited Dr LAM Ying-ming and the Administration
to give their views on this new measure of the HKCFP. In response,
Dr LAM said that he did not consider that the plan would help to improve
the overall standards of medical practitioners in Hong Kong. Moreover,
as the participating doctors would have to bear the cost incurred by the
assessment exercise, which was estimated to be about $20,000 for each doctor,
he believed that doctors would not be interested to take part in it.
In addition, he commented that the name of the Certificate might even mislead
patients to think that the doctor concerned had only completed basic health
care training.
11. Deputy Secretary for Health and Welfare 1 (DS(HW)1) said that
the Administration would have a meeting with the HKCPF soon to look at
the details of the proposed assessment exercise and it had no comments
to make on the exercise for the time being. Regarding the name of
the Certificate, DS(HW)1 said that the Administration was more concerned
about whether the exercise could achieve its aim in enhancing the standards
of medical service rather than the name of the certificate to be issued.
As regards the difficulties faced by private medical practitioners in their
pursuit of training on family medicine, DS(HW)1 undertook that the
Administration would review the situation with the HKCPF. He said
that the Department of Health (DH) and the HA would make every effort to
improve the provision of training opportunities for doctors as far as resources
allowed. As regards the suggestion that the Government should subsidize
doctors directly to undergo CME, he said that the Administration would
have to consider the proposal very carefully in view of the complexity
of the matter involved and its implications on other professions. | Adm |
---|
12. Miss Cyd HO Sau-lan asked Dr LAM whether medical practitioners in
general considered that there was a genuine need for them to undergo CME
if it was not made a compulsory requirement for them to do so. She
would also like to know on average how much they were willing to pay for
CME and the duration they considered as appropriate for it. In response,
Dr LAM believed that the majority of private medical practitioners were
interested in pursuing CME to enhance their professional knowledge.
However, he believed that each doctor had a different view on the appropriate
cost/duration of CME and it might be necessary for the EDA to conduct a
survey first in order to answer the questions. He personally considered
that some CME courses served more as an occasion for social gathering instead
of the purpose of enhancing the professional knowledge and standards of
the participants. In fact, some recognized CME courses were actually
sponsored by some pharmaceutical companies and they served to introduce
and promote their products. He pointed out that there were many ways
to enhance the professional standards of medical practitioners. For
example, they could gain up-to-date knowledge on medical development and
health related issues from the Internet, medical journals and so on.
Therefore, it should not be made a compulsory requirement for private medical
practitioners to undergo CME since there were many alternative ways for
doctors to seek improvement in their professional knowledge. These ways,
in Dr LAM's view, would save doctors' time and achieve better results.
13. The Chairman questioned how to institutionalize the alternative
kinds of CME as suggested by Dr LAM. In reply, Dr LAM pointed out
that there were actually many CME programmes on the Internet and in medical
journals. A doctor after studies could complete the questions set
in the programmes and provide a copy of his answer to the HKMC for record
and assessment. The Chairman requested the EDA to provide details
of their preferred mode of CME and their views on the appropriate duration
and cost to the Panel for reference.
14. Dr LEONG Che-hung agreed that there was a need to promote the development
of family medicine. In response to Dr LAM's comments on the nature
of CME, Dr LEONG pointed out that participants in CME could earn credits
not just by attending lectures/seminars but also by completing CME programme
in some journals or by attending post-graduate training. He disagreed
that CME had been regarded as a social function and clarified that it actually
consisted of different modes of learning activities. As to why private
medical practitioners should be required to undergo CME, Dr LEONG explained
that one of purposes of CME was to boost confidence of the public in the
professional standards of doctors. Dr LEONG pointed out that this
purpose could not be achieved if doctors enhanced their professional standards
simply by self-studies without formal assessments of their standards based
on objective criteria.
15. On the training of family physicians, Dr LEONG appreciated the difficulties
faced by a medical practitioner who would have no earnings while attending
the clinical training required for family physicians, except for the first
two years in which the doctor was paid a salary by the HA. Dr LEONG
drew the Administration's attention to this point which explained why many
medical practitioners were deterred from pursuing the studies. As
regards the "Certificate of Primary Medical Care", Dr LEONG explained that
it was meant to provide a way for those who could not reach a fellowship
level recognized by the HKCPF and yet could still practise as a family
physician. He pointed out that this was already a compromising step
taken by the HKCFP.
16. On the issue of transparency of fee-charging, the Chairman said
he noticed that few estate doctors had actually displayed a scale of fees
at their clinics. He requested Dr LAM to elaborate further the stance
of the EDA on this matter and what resistance it had encountered from doctors.
In response, Dr LAM said that the stance of the EDA was that it encouraged
doctors to display a scale of fees at their clinics (but not outside the
clinics). In response to the Chairman's further question, Dr LAM
said that the EDA did not suggest doctors to list separate scales of fees
charged for normal consultations and extended consultations. Dr LEONG
Che-hung commented that he was against imposing additional charges on a
patient for the longer time taken to confirm diagnosis and he considered
that such practice was "unethical". In response to Dr LEONG's comments,
the Chairman considered that whether or not such practice was unethical
was open to discussion and no conclusion could be drawn now. The
Chairman requested the EDA to provide to this Panel its comments on the
post-graduate diploma course on family medicine organized by the CUHK and
the assessment exercise recommended by the HKCPF.
17. The Chairman thanked Dr LAM for attending the meeting.
18. The meeting ended at 10:55 am.
Legislative Council Secretariat
7 September 1999