LegCo Paper No. CB 136/95-96

THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
MINUTES
No. 4 of 1995/96

Minutes of the sitting held on Wednesday 2 November 1995 at 2.30 p.m.

Present:

    President : The Honourable Andrew WONG Wang-fat, O.B.E., J.P.
    The Honourable Allen LEE Peng-fei, C.B.E., J.P.
    The Honourable Mrs. Selina CHOW LIANG Shuk-yee, O.B.E., J.P.
    The Honourable Martin LEE Chu-ming, Q.C., J.P.
    Dr. the Honourable David LI Kwok-po, O.B.E., LL.D.(Cantab), J.P.
    The Honourable NGAI Shiu-kit, O.B.E., J.P.
    The Honourable SZETO Wah
    The Honourable LAU Wong-fat, O.B.E., J.P.
    The Honourable Edward HO Sing-tin, O.B.E., J.P.
    The Honourable Ronald Joseph ARCULLI, O.B.E., J.P.
    The Honourable Mrs. Miriam LAU Kin-yee, O.B.E., J.P.
    The Honourable Albert CHAN Wai-yip
    The Honourable CHEUNG Man-kwong
    The Honourable CHIM Pui-chung
    The Honourable Frederick FUNG Kin-kee
    The Honourable Michael HO Mun-ka
    Dr. the Honourable HUANG Chen-ya, M.B.E.
    The Honourable Emily LAU Wai-hing
    The Honourable LEE Wing-tat
    The Honourable Eric LI Ka-cheung, J.P.
    The Honourable Fred LI Wah-ming
    The Honourable Henry TANG Ying-yen, J.P.
    The Honourable James TO Kun-sun
    Dr. the Honourable Samuel WONG Ping-wai, M.B.E., F.Eng., J.P.
    Dr. the Honourable Philip WONG Yu-hong
    Dr. the Honourable YEUNG Sum
    The Honourable Howard YOUNG, J.P.
    The Honourable Zachary WONG Wai-yin
    The Honourable Christine LOH Kung-wai
    The Honourable James TIEN Pei-chun, O.B.E., J.P.
    The Honourable LEE Cheuk-yan
    The Honourable CHAN Kam-lam
    The Honourable CHAN Wing-chan
    The Honourable CHAN Yuen-han
    The Honourable Andrew CHENG Kar-foo
    The Honourable Paul CHENG Ming-fun
    The Honourable CHENG Yiu-tong
    The Honourable Anthony CHEUNG Bing-leung
    The Honourable CHEUNG Hon-chung
    The Honourable CHOY Kan-pui, J.P.
    The Honourable David CHU Yu-lin
    The Honourable Albert HO Chun-yan
    The Honourable IP Kwok-him
    The Honourable LAU Chin-shek
    The Honourable Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen, J.P.
    Dr. the Honourable LAW Cheung-kwok
    The Honourable LAW Chi-kwong
    The Honourable LEE Kai-ming
    The Honourable LEUNG Yiu-chung
    The Honourable Bruce LIU Sing-lee
    The Honourable LO Suk-ching
    The Honourable MOK Ying-fan
    The Honourable Margaret NG
    The Honourable SIN Chung-kai
    The Honourable TSANG Kin-shing
    Dr. the Honourable John TSE Wing-ling
    The Honourable Mrs. Elizabeth WONG CHIEN Chi-lien, C.B.E., I.S.O., J.P.
    The Honourable Lawrence YUM Sin-ling

Absent:

    Dr. the Honourable Edward LEONG Che-hung, O.B.E., J.P.
    The Honourable NGAN Kam-chuen

In attendance:

The Honourable Mrs. Anson CHAN, C.B.E., J.P.
The Chief Secretary
The Honourable Donald TSANG Yam-kuen, O.B.E., J.P.
The Financial Secretary
The Honourable Jeremy Fell MATHEWS, C.M.G., J.P.
The Attorney General
Mr. Michael SUEN Ming-yeung, C.B.E., J.P.
Secretary for Home Affairs
Mr. CHAU Tak-hay, C.B.E., J.P.
Secretary for Trade and Industry
Mr. Haider Hatim Tyebjee BARMA, I.S.O., J.P.
Secretary for Transport
Mr. Gordon SIU Kwing-chue, J.P.
Secretary for Economic Services
Mr. Dominic WONG Shing-wah, O.B.E., J.P.
Secretary for Housing
Mrs. Katherine FOK LO Shiu-ching, O.B.E., J.P.
Secretary for Health and Welfare
Mr. Rafael HUI Si-yan, J.P.
Secretary for Financial Services
Mr. Joseph WONG Wing-ping, J.P.
Secretary for Education and Manpower
Mr. Peter LAI Hing-ling, J.P.
Secretary for Security
Mr. Bowen LEUNG Po-wing, J.P.
Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands
Mr. KWONG Ki-chi, J.P.
Secretary for the Treasury
Mr. KWONG Hon-sang, J.P.
Secretary for Works

Clerks to the Legislative Council:

    Mr. LAW Kam-sang, Deputy Secretary General
    Miss Pauline NG Man-wah, Assistant Secretary General (1)
    Mr. Ray CHAN Yum-mou, Assistant Secretary General (2)

PAPERS

The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order 14(2) :

Subsidiary Legislation

L.N. NO.

1. Television (Date of Renewal of Licence) (Asia Television Limited) Order 1995

477/95

2. Television (Date of Renewal of Licence) (Television Broadcasts Limited) Order 1995

478/95

3. Television (Royalty and Licence Fees) (Amendment) Regulation 1995

479/95

4. Official Languages (Alteration of Text) (Firearms and Ammunition Ordinance) Order 1995

481/95

5. Security and Guarding Services (Fees) Regulation (L.N. 258 of 1995) (Commencement) Notice 1995

482/95

6. Insurance Companies (Amendment) Ordinance 1994 (25 of 1994) (Commencement) Notice 1995

483/95

7. Insurance Companies (Determination of Long Term Liabilities) Regulation (L.N. 327 of 1995) (Commencement) Notice 1995

484/95

8. Insurance Companies (Margin of Solvency) Regulation (L.N. 328 of 1995) (Commencement) Notice 1995

485/95

9. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Pensions (Special Provisions) (Customs Officers) Ordinance) Order

(C) 83/95

10. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Legal Officers Ordinance) Order

(C) 84/95

11. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Pensions (Special Provisions) (Hong Kong Polytechnic) Ordinance) Order

(C) 85/95

12. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Pensions (Special Provisions) Ordinance) Order

(C) 86/95

13. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Misrepresentation Ordinance) Order

(C) 87/95

14. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Pensions (Increase) Ordinance) Order

(C) 88/95

15. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Firearms and Ammunition Ordinance) Order

(C) 89/95

16. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Marriage (War Period) (Validity) Ordinance) Order

(C) 90/95

Sessional Papers 1995/96

No. 15

-

Hong Kong Tourist Association Annual Report 1994/95

No. 16

-

Annual Report of the Protection of Wages on Insolvency Fund Board 1994/95

Address

The Secretary for Economic Services addressed the Council on the "Hong Kong Tourist Association Annual Report 1994/95" which he presented.

QUESTIONS

Written replies to Questions 1 to 17 were tabled for Members’ information.

MOTIONS

INTERPRETATION AND GENERAL CLAUSES ORDINANCE

The Chief Secretary moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

(Resolution in Annex I)

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

CRIMINAL PROCEDURE ORDINANCE

The Chief Secretary moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases (Amendment)(No.3) Rules 1995, made by the Chief Justice on 14 October 1995, be approved.

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

BILLS

FIRST READING

Costs in Criminal Cases Bill

Employment (Amendment) (No.4) Bill 1995

Lands Tribunal (Amendment) Bill 1995

The bills were read the first time and ordered to be set down for second reading pursuant to Standing Order 41(3).

SECOND READING

Costs in Criminal Cases Bill

The Attorney General moved the second reading and addressed the Council.

Employment (Amendment) (No.4) Bill 1995

The Secretary for Education and Manpower moved the second reading and addressed the Council.

Lands Tribunal (Amendment) Bill 1995

The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands moved the second reading and addressed the Council.

BANK NOTES ISSUE (AMENDMENT) BILL 1995

Resumption of debate on second reading which was moved on 18 October 1995.

Question on second reading proposed, put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

TAX RESERVE CERTIFICATES (AMENDMENT) BILL 1995

Resumption of debate on second reading which was moved on 18 October 1995.

Question on second reading proposed, put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

COMMITTEE STAGE

The Council went into Committee and considered the following bills:

BANK NOTES ISSUE (AMENDMENT) BILL 1995

Question that the following clauses stand part of the bill proposed.

Question on clauses 1 to 10 put and agreed to.

TAX RESERVE CERTIFICATES (AMENDMENT) BILL 1995

Question that the following clauses stand part of the bill proposed.

Question on clauses 1 to 3 put and agreed to.

The Council then resumed.

THIRD READING

The Secretary for Financial Services reported that the

BANK NOTES ISSUE (AMENDMENT) BILL 1995

had passed through Committee without amendment. He moved that the bill be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the third reading proposed, put and agreed to.

Bill read the third time and passed.

The Secretary for the Treasury reported that the

TAX RESERVE CERTIFICATES (AMENDMENT) BILL 1995

had passed through Committee without amendment. He moved that the bill be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the third reading proposed, put and agreed to.

Bill read the third time and passed.

PRIVATE MEMBER'S MOTIONS

INTERPRETATION AND GENERAL CLAUSES ORDINANCE

Mr. Ronald ARCULLI moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Noise Control (General)(Amendment) Regulation 1995, published as Legal Notice No. 426 of 1995 and laid on the table of the Legislative Council on 11 October 1995, be repealed.

Question on the motion proposed.

The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands, 15 Members and the Secretary for the Treasury spoke on the motion.

Question on the motion put. As the President could not judge from the voice votes whether the 'ayes' had it or the 'noes' had it, he ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

Because of the malfunctioning of the voting unit on Mr. SZETO Wah's desk, the President corrected the error in relation to Mr. SZETO Wah's vote on the "print-out" of the electronic voting system. After the correction, the result of the division was 35 votes for the motion and 19 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex II.) He declared that Mr. Ronald ARCULLI's motion was carried.

INTERPRETATION AND GENERAL CLAUSES ORDINANCE

Mr. Ronald ARCULLI moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Noise Control (Air Compressors)(Amendment) Regulation 1995, published as Legal Notice No. 427 of 1995 and laid on the table of the Legislative Council on 11 October 1995, be repealed.

Question on the motion proposed.

The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands and three Members spoke on the motion.

Question on the motion put. The President stated that he thought the motion had been carried.

Dr. Philip WONG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

Because of the malfunctioning of the voting unit on Mr. SZETO Wah's desk, the President corrected the error in relation to Mr. SZETO Wah's vote on the "print-out" of the electronic voting system. After the correction, the result of the division was 35 votes for the motion and 19 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex III.) He declared that Mr. Ronald ARCULLI's motion was carried.

INTERPRETATION AND GENERAL CLAUSES ORDINANCE

Mr. Ronald ARCULLI moved the folowing motion and addressed the Council:

That the Noise Control (Hand Held Percussive Breakers)(Amendment) Regulation 1995, published as Legal Notice No. 428 of 1995 and laid on the table of the Legislative Council on 11 October 1995, be repealed.

Question on the motion proposed.

The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands spoke on the motion.

Question on the motion put. The President stated that he thought the motion had been negatived.

The Financial Secretary claimed a division under Standing Order 4C(3). The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

Because of the malfunctioning of the voting unit on Mr. SZETO Wah's desk, the President corrected the error in relation to Mr. SZETO Wah's vote on the "print-out" of the electronic voting system. After the correction, the result of the division was 34 votes for the motion and 19 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex IV.) He declared that Mr. Ronald ARCULLI's motion was carried.

(The President subsequently ruled that this division was invalid and ordered a fresh division on the motion in the course of the deliberation on the next motion.)

INTERPRETATION AND GENERAL CLAUSES ORDINANCE

Mr. Ronald ARCULLI moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Waste Disposal (Forms and Fees for Licences)(Amendment) Regulation 1995, published as Legal Notice No. 429 of 1995 and laid on the table of the Legislative Council on 11 October 1995, be repealed.

Question on the motion proposed.

The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands spoke on the motion.

Question on the motion put. The President stated that he thought the motion had been carried.

The Financial Secretary and Dr. Philip WONG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

Mr. Allen LEE raised a point of order on whether the Financial Secretary had the right to claim a division. The President replied in the affirmative.

Because of the malfunctioning of the voting unit on Mr. SZETO Wah's desk, the President corrected the error in relation to Mr. SZETO Wah's vote on the "print-out" of the electronic voting system. After the correction, the result of the division was 34 votes for the motion and 19 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex V.) He declared that Mr. Ronald ARCULLI's motion was carried.

Mr. Edward HO raised a point of order regarding the President's ruling earlier that the Financial Secretary had the right to claim a division. The President suspended the sitting to consider Mr. Edward HO's point of order.

The Council resumed at 5:30 p.m.

The President stated that Mr. Allen LEE and Mr. Edward Ho were entirely correct in reading Standing Order 4C(2) and Standing Order 4C(3) to mean that all public officers including the Chief Secretary, the Financial Secretary and the Attorney General were not permitted to claim divisions. This was because reference to the exceptions in Standing Order 4C(2) and Standing Order 4C(3) included all Standing Orders in Part J, among which was Standing Order 36(4) which dealt with the claiming of division. The President therefore ruled that the division on the motion on the Noise Control (Hand Held Percussive Breakers) (Amendment) Regulation 1995 claimed by the Financial Secretary was invalid.

The President then repeated his earlier judgement that for the motion on the Noise Control (Hand Held Percussive Breakers) (Amendment) Regulation 1995, the "Noes" had it.

Mr. Ronald ARCULLI claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

The President announced that there were 35 votes for the motion and 18 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex VI.) He declared that Mr. Ronald ARCULLI's motion was carried.

INTERPRETATION AND GENERAL CLAUSES ORDINANCE

Mr. Ronald ARCULLI moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Waste Disposal (Chemical Waste)(General) (Amendment) Regulation 1995, published as Legal Notice No. 430 of 1995 and laid on the table of the Legislative Council on 11 October 1995, be repealed.

Question on the motion proposed.

The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands spoke on the motion.

Question on the motion put. The President stated that he thought the motion had been carried.

Dr. Philip WONG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

The President announced that there were 35 votes for the motion and 17 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex VII.) He declared that Mr. Ronald ARCULLI's motion was carried.

INTERPRETATION AND GENERAL CLAUSES ORDINANCE

Mr. Ronald ARCULLI moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Water Pollution Control (General)(Amendment) Regulation 1995, published as Legal Notice No. 431 of 1995 and laid on the table of the Legislative Council on 11 October 1995, be repealed.

Question on the motion proposed.

The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands and two Members spoke on the motion.

Question on the motion put. The President stated that he thought the motion had been carried.

Dr. Philip WONG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

The President announced that there were 37 votes for the motion and 14 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex VIII.) He declared that Mr. Ronald ARCULLI's motion was carried.

INTERPRETATION AND GENERAL CLAUSES ORDINANCE

Mr. Ronald ARCULLI moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Air Pollution Control (Specified Processes) (Amendment) Regulation 1995, published as Legal Notice No. 432 of 1995 and laid on the table of the Legislative Council on 11 October 1995, be repealed.

Question on the motion proposed.

The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands spoke on the motion.

Question on the motion put. The President stated that he thought the motion had been carried.

Dr. Philip WONG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

The President announced that there were 35 votes for the motion and 18 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex IX.) He declared that Mr. Ronald ARCULLI's motion was carried.

INTERPRETATION AND GENERAL CLAUSES ORDINANCE

Mr. Ronald ARCULLI moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Road Traffic Ordinance (Amendment of Schedule 10) Order 1995, published as Legal Notice No. 433 of 1995 and laid on the table of the Legislative Council on 11 October 1995, be repealed.

Question on the motion proposed.

The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands spoke on the motion.

Question on the motion put. The President stated that he thought the motion had been carried.

Dr. Samuel WONG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

The President announced that there were 44 votes for the motion and nine votes against it. (Voting record in Annex X.) He declared that Mr. Ronald ARCULLI's motion was carried.

INTERPRETATION AND GENERAL CLAUSES ORDINANCE

Mr. Ronald ARCULLI moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Dumping at Sea (Fees) Regulation, published as Legal Notice No. 434 of 1995 and laid on the table of the Legislative Council on 11 October 1995, be repealed.

Question on the motion proposed.

The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands spoke on the motion.

Question on the motion put. The President stated that he thought the motion had been carried.

Dr. Philip WONG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

The President announced that there were 34 votes for the motion and 18 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex XI.) He declared that Mr. Ronald ARCULLI's motion was carried.

INTERPRETATION AND GENERAL CLAUSES ORDINANCE

Mr. Ronald ARCULLI moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Ozone Layer Protection (Fees)(Amendment) Regulation 1995, published as Legal Notice No. 435 of 1995 and laid on the table of the Legislative Council on 11 October 1995, be repealed.

Question on the motion proposed.

The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands spoke on the motion.

Question on the motion put. The President stated that he thought the motion had been carried.

Dr. Philip WONG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

The President announced that there were 32 votes for the motion and 17 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex XII.) He declared that Mr. Ronald ARCULLI's motion was carried.

INTERPRETATION AND GENERAL CLAUSES ORDINANCE

Mr. Ronald ARCULLI moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Road Traffic Ordinance (Amendment of Schedule 8) Order 1995, published as Legal Notice No. 453 of 1995 and laid on the table of the Legislative Council on 11 October 1995, be amended in section 2 by repealing -

"(c) Fee payable for supply of each form of a certificate of roadworthiness -

(i) Private car $53

(ii) Light goods vehicle $63".

Question on the motion proposed.

The Secretary for Transport, one Member and the Secretary for the Treasury spoke on the motion.

Question on the motion put. The President stated that he thought the motion had been carried.

Dr. Philip WONG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

The President announced that there were 40 votes for the motion and 11 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex XIII.) He declared that Mr. Ronald ARCULLI's motion was carried.

MOTION OF THANKS

Resumption of debate on the ‘Motion of Thanks’ moved on 25 October 1995.

The Financial Secretary, the Secretary for Home Affairs, the Secretary for Health and Welfare, the Secretary for Education and Manpower, the Secretary for Financial Services, the Secretary for Trade and Industry, the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands, the Secretary for Works, the Secretary for Transport, the Secretary for Housing, the Secretary for Security, and the Chief Secretary spoke on the motion.

The President suspended the sitting at 10:16 p.m. to enable Members to deliberate in private before they proceeded to vote on the motion.

The Council resumed at 10:30 p.m.

Question on the motion put. The President stated that he thought the motion had been carried.

Mr. Allen LEE claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

The President announced that there were 24 votes for the motion and nine votes against it. (Voting record in Annex XIV.) He declared that the motion was carried.

NEXT SITTING

In accordance with Standing Orders, the President adjourned the Council until Wednesday, 8 November 1995.

Adjourned accordingly at twenty-five minutes to eleven o'clock.

Last Updated on 29 July 1999