LegCo Paper No. CB(3) 639/95-96

THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
MINUTES
No. 23 of 1995/96

Minutes of the sitting held on Wednesday 3 April 1996 at 2.30 p.m.


Present:

    President : The Honourable Andrew WONG Wang-fat, O.B.E., J.P.
    The Honourable Allen LEE Peng-fei, C.B.E., J.P.
    The Honourable Mrs. Selina CHOW LIANG Shuk-yee, O.B.E., J.P.
    The Honourable Martin LEE Chu-ming, Q.C., J.P.
    Dr. the Honourable David LI Kwok-po, O.B.E., LL.D.(Cantab), J.P.
    The Honourable NGAI Shiu-kit, O.B.E., J.P.
    The Honourable SZETO Wah
    The Honourable LAU Wong-fat, O.B.E., J.P.
    The Honourable Edward HO Sing-tin, O.B.E., J.P.
    The Honourable Ronald Joseph ARCULLI, O.B.E., J.P.
    The Honourable Mrs. Miriam LAU Kin-yee, O.B.E., J.P.
    Dr. the Honourable Edward LEONG Che-hung, O.B.E., J.P.
    The Honourable Albert CHAN Wai-yip
    The Honourable CHEUNG Man-kwong
    The Honourable CHIM Pui-chung
    The Honourable Frederick FUNG Kin-kee
    The Honourable Michael HO Mun-ka
    Dr. the Honourable HUANG Chen-ya, M.B.E.
    The Honourable Emily LAU Wai-hing
    The Honourable LEE Wing-tat
    The Honourable Eric LI Ka-cheung, J.P.
    The Honourable Fred LI Wah-ming
    The Honourable Henry TANG Ying-yen, J.P.
    The Honourable James TO Kun-sun
    Dr. the Honourable Samuel WONG Ping-wai, M.B.E., F.Eng., J.P.
    Dr. the Honourable YEUNG Sum
    The Honourable Howard YOUNG, J.P.
    The Honourable Zachary WONG Wai-yin
    The Honourable Christine LOH Kung-wai
    The Honourable James TIEN Pei-chun, O.B.E., J.P.
    The Honourable LEE Cheuk-yan
    The Honourable CHAN Kam-lam
    The Honourable CHAN Wing-chan
    The Honourable CHAN Yuen-han
    The Honourable Andrew CHENG Kar-foo
    The Honourable Paul CHENG Ming-fun
    The Honourable CHENG Yiu-tong
    The Honourable CHEUNG Hon-chung
    The Honourable CHOY Kan-pui, J.P.
    The Honourable David CHU Yu-lin
    The Honourable Albert HO Chun-yan
    The Honourable IP Kwok-him
    The Honourable LAU Chin-shek
    The Honourable Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen, J.P.
    Dr. the Honourable LAW Cheung-kwok
    The Honourable LAW Chi-kwong
    The Honourable LEE Kai-ming
    The Honourable LEUNG Yiu-chung
    The Honourable Bruce LIU Sing-lee
    The Honourable LO Suk-ching
    The Honourable MOK Ying-fan
    The Honourable Margaret NG
    The Honourable NGAN Kam-chuen
    The Honourable SIN Chung-kai
    The Honourable TSANG Kin-shing
    Dr. the Honourable John TSE Wing-ling
    The Honourable Mrs. Elizabeth WONG CHIEN Chi-lien, C.B.E., I.S.O., J.P.
    The Honourable Lawrence YUM Sin-ling

Absent:

    Dr. the Honourable Philip WONG Yu-hong
    Dr. the Honourable Anthony CHEUNG Bing-leung

In attendance:

The Honourable Mrs. Anson CHAN, C.B.E., J.P.
The Chief Secretary
The Honourable Donald TSANG Yam-kuen, O.B.E., J.P.
The Financial Secretary
The Honourable Jeremy Fell MATHEWS, C.M.G., J.P.
The Attorney General
Mr. CHAU Tak-hay, C.B.E., J.P.
Secretary for Recreation and Culture
Mr. Haider Hatim Tyebjee BARMA, I.S.O., J.P.
Secretary for Transport
Mr. Gordon SIU Kwing-chue, J.P.
Secretary for Economic Services
Mr. Dominic WONG Shing-wah, O.B.E., J.P.
Secretary for Housing
Mrs. Katherine FOK LO Shiu-ching, O.B.E., J.P.
Secretary for Health and Welfare
Mr. Rafael HUI Si-yan, J.P.
Secretary for Financial Services
Mr. Joseph WONG Wing-ping, J.P.
Secretary for Education and Manpower
Mr. Peter LAI Hing-ling, J.P.
Secretary for Security
Miss Denise YUE Chung-yee, J.P.
Secretary for Trade and Industry
Mr. Bowen LEUNG Po-wing, J.P.
Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands
Mr. LAM Woon-kwong, J.P.
Secretary for the Civil Service
Mr. KWONG Ki-chi, J.P.
Secretary for the Treasury

Clerks to the Legislative Council:

    Mr. LAW Kam-sang, Deputy Secretary General
    Mr. Ray CHAN Yum-mou, Assistant Secretary General (2)


PAPERS

The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order 14(2):

Subsidiary Legislation

L.N. NO.

1. Land Registration Fees (Amendment) Regulation 1995 (Amendment) (No.2) Regulation 1996

145/96

2. Probation of Offenders (Approved Institution) (Consolidation) (Amendment) Order 1996

146/96

3. Solicitors (General) Costs (Amendment) Rules 1996

147/96

4. Solicitors (Trade Marks and Patents) Costs (Amendment) Rules 1996

148/96

5. Declaration of Change of Titles (Civil Service Training Centre and Senior Staff Course Centre) Notice 1996

149/96

6. Declaration of Change of Title (Director, Senior Staff Course Centre) Notice 1996

150/96

7. Pneumoconiosis (Compensation) (Amendment) Ordinance 1996 (4 of 1996) (Commencement) Notice 1996

151/96

8. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Metrication Ordinance) Order

(C) 27/96

9. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Post Office Ordinance) Order

(C) 28/96

Sessional Papers 1995/96

No. 70

-

Estimates for the year ending 31 March 1997 General Revenue Account Summaries Revenue by Heads and Subheads

No. 71

-

Traffic Accident Victims Assistance Fund Annual Report by the Director of Social Welfare Incorporated for the year from 1 April 1994 to 31 March 1995

No. 72

-

Consumer Council Annual Report 1994-1995

No. 73

-

Securities and Futures Commission Approved Estimates of Income and Expenditure for Financial Year 1996/97

QUESTIONS

Written replies to Questions 1 to 20 were tabled for Members’ information.

ANNOUNCEMENT

The President announced that, in response to a point of order made by Mr. Albert CHAN on the second day of the previous sitting on 28.3.96, he had undertaken to give, at this sitting, the reasons for his intervention in the course of Mr. LEUNG Yiu-chung's speech. He said that derogatory reflections and abusive and indecent language included not only direct accusations and expletives but also allusions and quotes. Quoting the part of Mr. LEUNG Yiu-chung’s speech which he considered as reflecting derogatorily on the moral character of some people, he said that if Mr. LEUNG was alluding or intended to allude to any Member of the Council, he would fall foul of Standing Order 31(4). The President further said that in the light of some of the speeches made prior to Mr. LEUNG in the same debate, he had requested Mr. LEUNG to clarify his remarks and to indicate whether the remarks were referring to any Member of the Council. After Mr. LEUNG had stated that he was not so referring, he invited Mr. LEUNG to carry on with his speech.

The President went on to say that while the use of offensive and insulting language about Members of the Council was in breach of Standing Order 31(4), he considered the use of profane, abusive and indecent language about anybody, even if he or she was not a Member of the Council, was also out of order.

Regarding Mr. LEUNG Yiu-chung’s enquiry, at the previous sitting, on whether the part of his speech in question would stay in Hansard, the President said that there was no question of any part of Mr. LEUNG’s speech being deleted from Hansard. Expressions or words that had been withdrawn by order of the Chair would remain in Hansard unless such words or expressions were grossly profane or grossly indecent.

BILLS

FIRST READING

Electricity (Amendment) Bill 1996

Firearms and Ammunition (Amendment) Bill 1996

Trade Descriptions (Amendment) Bill 1996

Import and Export (Amendment) Bill 1996

Control of Chemicals (Amendment) Bill 1996

Reserved Commodities (Amendment) Bill 1996

Toys and Children's Products Safety (Amendment) Bill 1996

Consumer Goods Safety (Amendment) Bill 1996

The bills were read the first time and ordered to be set down for second reading pursuant to Standing Order 41(3).

SECOND READING

Electricity (Amendment) Bill 1996

The Secretary for Economic Services moved the second reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the second reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Standing Orders, the debate was adjourned and the bill was referred to the House Committee.

Firearms and Ammunition (Amendment) Bill 1996

The Secretary for Security moved the second reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the second reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Standing Orders, the debate was adjourned and the bill was referred to the House Committee.

Trade Descriptions (Amendment) Bill 1996

Import and Export (Amendment) Bill 1996

Control of Chemicals (Amendment) Bill 1996

Reserved Commodities (Amendment) Bill 1996

Toys and Children's Products Safety (Amendment) Bill 1996

Consumer Goods Safety (Amendment) Bill 1996

The Secretary for Trade and Industry moved the second reading and addressed the Council on each of the above six bills.

Question on the second reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Standing Orders, the debates on the above bills were adjourned and the bills were referred to the House Committee.

Appropriation Bill 1996

Resumption of debate on second reading which had been moved on 6 March 1996.

The Secretary for the Treasury spoke on the motion.

At 2:58 p.m., the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare, the Secretary for Recreation and Culture, the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands, the Secretary for Transport, the Secretary for Security, the Secretary for Financial Services, the Secretary for Education and Manpower and the Secretary for Housing spoke on the motion.

At 4:34 p.m., the President resumed the chair.

The Financial Secretary replied.

The President suspended the sitting at 5:03 p.m. to enable Members to deliberate in private before they proceeded to vote on the motion.

The Council resumed at 5:20 p.m.

Question on second reading put. The President stated that he thought the motion had been carried.

Miss Emily LAU claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

The President announced that there were 52 votes for the motion and two votes against it. (Voting record in Annex I.) He declared that the motion was carried.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

COMMITTEE STAGE

The Council went into Committee and considered the APPROPRIATION BILL 1996

In accordance with Standing Order 55, the Committee first considered the schedule to the bill.

Question that the sums for heads 21 to 194 stand part of the schedule proposed.

The Chairman stated that Mr. James TO had withdrawn the notice of his motion to reduce the sum for Head 122 in the schedule to the bill. Although no amendment was being proposed to the schedule, a debate might still take place on the question that all the heads shown in the schedule stand part of the schedule. The Chairman further said that any such debate should be confined to the policy of the service for which the money was to be provided and should not deal with the details of any item or subhead but might refer to the details of revenue or funds for which that service was responsible.

Three Members and the Secretary for Security spoke on the motion.

Question that the sums for heads 21 to 194 stand part of the schedule put and agreed to.

Question that the schedule stand part of the bill proposed, put and agreed to.

Question that clauses 1 and 2 stand part of the bill proposed.

Question on clauses 1 and 2 put and agreed to.

The Council then resumed.

THIRD READING

The Financial Secretary reported that the

APPROPRIATION BILL 1996

had passed through Committee without amendment. He moved that the bill be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the third reading proposed, put and agreed to.

Bill read the third time and passed.

MEMBER'S MOTIONS

HONG KONG ROYAL INSTRUCTIONS 1917 TO 1993 (NOS. 1 AND 2)

Dr. C.H. LEONG moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Standing Orders of the Legislative Council of Hong Kong be amended by repealing Standing Order No.42(3B)(c) and (d) and substituting -

"(c) if at the sitting of House Committee to consider the bill in preparation for resumption of debate the committee recommends that the second reading debate be resumed at the next sitting of the Council then resumption may take place at that sitting with the permission of the President provided that due notice has been given under subparagraph (e);

(d) subject to subparagraph (e), notice of resumption of debate shall be given by the Member or public officer in charge of the bill not less than 12 clear days before the day on which the debate is to be resumed;

(e) where resumption of debate is to take place 9 clear days or less after the sitting of House Committee at which the bill was considered in preparation for resumption, then notice of resumption of debate shall be given no later than 2 clear days after that sitting".

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

HONG KONG ROYAL INSTRUCTIONS 1917 TO 1993 (NOS. 1 AND 2)

Mrs. Miriam LAU moved the motion in Annex II and addressed the Council.

Question on the motion proposed.

Five Members spoke on the motion.

Mrs. Miriam LAU replied.

Question on the motion put. The President stated that he thought the motion had been carried.

Mrs. Miriam LAU claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

The President announced that there were 11 votes for the motion and 36 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex III.) He declared that the motion was negatived.

MEMBER'S BILLS

FIRST READING

Housing (Amendment) Bill 1996

Housing (Amendment) (No.2) Bill 1996

The bills were read the first time and ordered to be set down for second reading pursuant to Standing Order 41(3).

SECOND READING

The President stated that having studied the two, he had ruled that they were not substantially the same. The effect of his ruling was that the passage of any stage of the first bill would not impede the further proceeding of the second bill.

Housing (Amendment) Bill 1996

Mr. LEE Wing-tat moved the second reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the second reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Standing Orders, the debate was adjourned and the bill was referred to the House Committee.

Housing (Amendment) (No.2) Bill 1996

Mr. Bruce LIU moved the second reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the second reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Standing Orders, the debate was adjourned and the bill was referred to the House Committee.

Probate and Administration (Amendment) Bill 1996

Resumption of debate on second reading which had been moved on 13 March 1996.

The Attorney General spoke on the motion.

Mr. Bruce LIU replied.

Question on second reading put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

COMMITTEE STAGE

The Council went into Committee and considered the PROBATE AND ADMINISTRATION (AMENDMENT) BILL 1996

Question that clauses 1 and 2 stand part of the bill proposed.

Question on clauses 1 and 2 put and agreed to.

The Council then resumed.

THIRD READING

Mr. Bruce LIU reported that the

Probate and Administration (Amendment) Bill 1996

had passed through Committee without amendment. He moved that the bill be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the third reading proposed, put and agreed to.

Bill read the third time and passed.

NEXT SITTING

In accordance with Standing Orders, the President adjourned the Council until Thursday, 18 April 1996.

Adjourned accordingly at twenty-seven minutes to seven o’clock.


Last Updated on 29 July 1999