LegCo Paper No. CB 376/95-96

THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
MINUTES
No. 13 of 1995/96

Minutes of the sitting held on Wednesday 10 January 1996 at 2.30 p.m.

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Present:

President : The Honourable Andrew WONG Wang-fat, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable Allen LEE Peng-fei, C.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable Mrs. Selina CHOW LIANG Shuk-yee, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable Martin LEE Chu-ming, Q.C., J.P.
Dr. the Honourable David LI Kwok-po, O.B.E., LL.D.(Cantab), J.P.
The Honourable NGAI Shiu-kit, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable SZETO Wah
The Honourable LAU Wong-fat, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable Edward HO Sing-tin, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable Ronald Joseph ARCULLI, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable Mrs. Miriam LAU Kin-yee, O.B.E., J.P.
Dr. the Honourable Edward LEONG Che-hung, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable Albert CHAN Wai-yip
The Honourable CHEUNG Man-kwong
The Honourable CHIM Pui-chung
The Honourable Frederick FUNG Kin-kee
The Honourable Michael HO Mun-ka
Dr. the Honourable HUANG Chen-ya, M.B.E.
The Honourable Emily LAU Wai-hing
The Honourable LEE Wing-tat
The Honourable Eric LI Ka-cheung, J.P.
The Honourable Fred LI Wah-ming
The Honourable Henry TANG Ying-yen, J.P.
The Honourable James TO Kun-sun
Dr. the Honourable Samuel WONG Ping-wai, M.B.E., F.Eng., J.P.
Dr. the Honourable Philip WONG Yu-hong
Dr. the Honourable YEUNG Sum
The Honourable Howard YOUNG, J.P.
The Honourable Zachary WONG Wai-yin
The Honourable Christine LOH Kung-wai
The Honourable James TIEN Pei-chun, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable LEE Cheuk-yan
The Honourable CHAN Kam-lam
The Honourable CHAN Wing-chan
The Honourable CHAN Yuen-han
The Honourable Andrew CHENG Kar-foo
The Honourable Paul CHENG Ming-fun
The Honourable CHENG Yiu-tong
Dr. the Honourable Anthony CHEUNG Bing-leung
The Honourable CHEUNG Hon-chung
The Honourable CHOY Kan-pui, J.P.
The Honourable David CHU Yu-lin
The Honourable Albert HO Chun-yan
The Honourable IP Kwok-him
The Honourable LAU Chin-shek
The Honourable Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen, J.P.
Dr. the Honourable LAW Cheung-kwok
The Honourable LAW Chi-kwong
The Honourable LEE Kai-ming
The Honourable LEUNG Yiu-chung
The Honourable Bruce LIU Sing-lee
The Honourable LO Suk-ching
The Honourable MOK Ying-fan
The Honourable Margaret NG
The Honourable NGAN Kam-chuen
The Honourable SIN Chung-kai
The Honourable TSANG Kin-shing
Dr. the Honourable John TSE Wing-ling
The Honourable Mrs. Elizabeth WONG CHIEN Chi-lien, C.B.E., I.S.O., J.P.
The Honourable Lawrence YUM Sin-ling

In attendance:

The Honourable Mrs. Anson CHAN, C.B.E., J.P.

The Chief Secretary

The Honourable Donald TSANG Yam-kuen, O.B.E., J.P.

The Financial Secretary

The Honourable Jeremy Fell MATHEWS, C.M.G., J.P.

The Attorney General

Mr. Michael SUEN Ming-yeung, C.B.E., J.P.

Secretary for Home Affairs

Mr. CHAU Tak-hay, C.B.E., J.P.

Secretary for Recreation and Culture

Mr. Haider Hatim Tyebjee BARMA, I.S.O., J.P.

Secretary for Transport

Mrs. Katherine FOK LO Shiu-ching, O.B.E., J.P.

Secretary for Health and Welfare

Mr. Bowen LEUNG Po-wing, J.P.

Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands

Mr. KWONG Ki-chi, J.P.

Secretary for the Treasury

Mr. KWONG Hon-sang, J.P.

Secretary for Works

Miss Denise YUE Chung-yee, J.P.

Secretary for Trade and Industry

Miss Jacqueline Ann WILLIS, J.P.

Secretary for Education and Manpower

Mrs Carrie YAU TSANG Ka-lai, J.P.

Secretary for Security

Clerks to the Legislative Council:

Mr. Ricky FUNG Choi-cheung, Secretary General
Mr. LAW Kam-sang, Deputy Secretary General
Miss Pauline NG Man-wah, Assistant Secretary General (1)
Mr. Ray CHAN Yum-mou, Assistant Secretary General (2)

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PAPERS

Subsidiary Legislation
Sessional Papers 1995/96
Addresses

QUESTIONS
MOTIONS

CRIMINAL PROCEDURE ORDINANCE
INTERPRETATION AND GENERAL CLAUSES ORDINANCE

BILLS

FIRST READING

• Law Amendment and Reform (Consolidation) (Amendment) Bill 1995
• Road Traffic (Amendment) (No.3) Bill 1995
• Eastern Harbour Crossing Road Tunnel (Passage Tax) Bill
• Inland Revenue (Amendment) (No.4) Bill 1995
SECOND READING

• LAW AMENDMENT AND REFORM (CONSOLIDATION) (AMENDMENT) BILL 1995
• Road Traffic (Amendment) (No.3) Bill 1995
• Eastern Harbour Crossing Road Tunnel (Passage Tax) Bill
• Inland Revenue (Amendment) (No.4) Bill 1995
MEMBER'S MOTIONS

INTERPRETATION AND GENERAL CLAUSES ORDINANCE
SEWAGE CHARGES AND TRADE EFFLUENT SURCHARGES
REVIEW OF INDUSTRIAL SAFETY IN HONG KONG

MEMBER'S BILLS

FIRST READING

• Immigration (Amendment) Bill 1995
• Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi Bill
• The Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi (Merger of Subsidiaries) Bill
SECOND READING

• IMMIGRATION (AMENDMENT) BILL 1995
• Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi Bill
• The Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi (Merger of Subsidiaries) Bill
NEXT SITTING

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PAPERS

The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order 14(2) :

Sessional Papers 1995/96

Addresses

The Secretary for Education and Manpower addressed the Council on the "Hong Kong Council for Academic Accreditation Annual Report 1994-1995" which she presented.

Mr. WONG Wai-yin and Mr. CHAN Kam-lam addressed the Council on the Road Traffic (Public Service Vehicles) (Amendment) (No.5) Regulation 1995 which was laid on the table of the Council at the sitting on 13 December 1995.

QUESTIONS

1. Mr. LAW Chi-kwong asked Question 1.

The Secretary for Home Affairs replied.

Four Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Home Affairs replied.

2. Mr. LEE Cheuk-yan asked Question 2.

The Secretary for Education and Manpower replied.

Four Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Education and Manpower and the Secretary for Trade and Industry replied.

3. Miss Christine LOH asked Question 3.

The Secretary for the Treasury replied.

One Member asked a supplementary and the Secretary for the Treasury replied.

4. Mr. K.K. FUNG asked Question 4.

The Secretary for Security replied.

Three Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Security replied.

5. Mr. CHIM Pui-chung asked Question 5.

The Secretary for Trade and Industry replied.

Three Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Trade and Industry replied.

6. Mr. MOK Ying-fan asked Question 6.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

Four Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

Written replies to Questions 7 to 20 were tabled for Members’ information.

MOTIONS

CRIMINAL PROCEDURE ORDINANCE

The Attorney General moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Application for Dismissal of Charges Contained in a Notice of Transfer Rules, made by the Chief Justice on 4th December 1995, be approved.

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

INTERPRETATION AND GENERAL CLAUSES ORDINANCE

The Secretary for Security moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

(Resolution at Annex I)

Question on the motion proposed.

Two Members and the Attorney General spoke on the motion.

The Secretary for Security replied.

Question on the motion put and agreed to.

BILLS

FIRST READING

Law Amendment and Reform (Consolidation) (Amendment) Bill 1995

Road Traffic (Amendment) (No.3) Bill 1995

Eastern Harbour Crossing Road Tunnel (Passage Tax) Bill

Inland Revenue (Amendment) (No.4) Bill 1995

The bills were read the first time and ordered to be set down for second reading pursuant to Standing Order 41(3).

SECOND READING

LAW AMENDMENT AND REFORM (CONSOLIDATION) (AMENDMENT) BILL 1995

The Secretary for Home Affairs moved the second reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the second reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Standing Orders, the debate was adjourned and the bill was referred to the House Committee.

Road Traffic (Amendment) (No.3) Bill 1995

Eastern Harbour Crossing Road Tunnel (Passage Tax) Bill

Inland Revenue (Amendment) (No.4) Bill 1995

The Secretary for Transport moved the second reading and addressed the Council on each of the above three bills.

Question on the second reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Standing Orders, the debates on the above bills were adjourned and the bills were referred to the House Committee.

MEMBER'S MOTIONS

INTERPRETATION AND GENERAL CLAUSES ORDINANCE

Mr. LEE Wing-tat moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Ferry Services (Hongkong and Yaumati Ferry Company, Limited) (Determination of Fares) (Amendment) Order 1995, published as Legal Notice No. 545 of 1995 and laid on the table of the Legislative Council on 6 December 1995, be repealed.

Question on Mr. LEE Wing-tat's motion proposed.

The President stated that Mr. CHAN Kam-lam had given notice to move a motion to amend the Ferry Services (Hongkong and Yaumati Ferry Company, Limited) (Determination of Fares) (Amendment) Order 1995. As the content of Mr. LEE Wing-tat's and Mr. CHAN Kam-lam's motions were cognate, he proposed that the two motions be debated together in a joint debate. There being no dissenting voice, the President ordered that the two motions be debated together in a joint debate.

Mr. CHAN Kam-lam spoke on Mr LEE Wing-tat's motion as well as on his own motion.

14 Members and the Secretary for Transport spoke on both motions.

Mr. LEE Wing-tat replied.

Question on Mr. LEE Wing-tat’s motion put. The President stated that he thought the motion had been carried.

Mr. IP Kwok-him claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

The President announced that there were 27 votes for the motion and 31 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex II.) He declared that Mr. LEE Wing-tat’s motion was negatived.

Mr. CHAN Kam-lam moved the following motion:

(Resoulution in Annex III)

Question on Mr. CHAN Kam-lam’s motion proposed and put. The President stated that he thought the motion had been negatived.

Mr. CHAN Kam-lam claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

The President announced that there were 14 votes for the motion and 42 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex IV.) He declared that Mr. CHAN Kam-lam's motion was negatived.

SEWAGE CHARGES AND TRADE EFFLUENT SURCHARGES

Mr. CHAN Wing-chan moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That, in view of the fact that despite the current economic downturn and high inflation, the Government continues to adopt the "user pays" principle in the collection of sewage charges and trade effluent surcharges thereby increasing the burden of the public, this Council urges the Government to abolish or reduce the sewage charges on domestic users, to suspend temporarily the trade effluent surcharges on industrial and commercial users, and to review the basis of the charging scheme of trade effluent surcharges before making a decision on this matter.

Question on Mr. CHAN Wing-chan's motion proposed.

At 6:54 p.m., the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

Dr. John TSE, Mr. K.K. FUNG and Mr. LEUNG Yiu-chung addressed the Council on the motion and their proposed amendments respectively.

The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands spoke on the motion and the amendments.

At 7:30 p.m., the President resumed the chair.

11 Members spoke on the motion and the amendments.

Mr. CHAN Wing-chan spoke on the amendments.

The Secretary for Works spoke on the motion and the amendments.

Dr. John TSE moved the following amendment to Mr. CHAN Wing-chan's motion:

To insert "notwithstanding its support for the adoption of the "polluter pays" principle by the Government to levy sewage charges on the polluters, this Council is opposed to recovering full operating costs from the users" after "That"; to delete "fact that despite the", "the Government continues to adopt the "user pays" principle in the collection of sewage charges and trade effluent surcharges thereby increasing the burden of the public, this Council", "abolish or", "to suspend temporarily the trade effluent surcharges on industrial and commercial users," and "before making a decision on this matter"; and to insert "and" before "urges the Government to".

Question on Dr. John TSE's amendment to Mr. CHAN Wing-chan's motion proposed and put. The President stated that he thought the amendment had been carried.

Miss Emily LAU claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

The President announced that there were 20 votes for the amendment and 30 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex V.) He declared that Dr. John TSE's amendment to Mr. CHAN Wing-chan's motion was negatived.

Mr. K.K. FUNG moved the following amendment to Mr. CHAN Wing-chan's motion:

To delete "to adopt the "user pays" principle in" and "or reduce"; and to delete "suspend temporarily" and substitute with "consider reducing".

Question on Mr. K.K. FUNG's amendment to Mr. CHAN Wing-chan's motion proposed and put. The President stated that he thought the amendment had been negatived.

Mr. K.K. FUNG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

The President announced that there were three votes for the amendment and 47 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex VI.) He declared that Mr. K.K. FUNG's amendment to Mr. CHAN Wing-chan's motion was negatived.

Mr. LEUNG Yiu-chung moved the following amendment to Mr. CHAN Wing-chan's motion:

To delete "or reduce", "to suspend temporarily the trade effluent surcharges on industrial and commercial users," and "before making a decision on this matter"; and to insert "as soon as possible" before "the basis of the charging scheme".

Question on Mr. LEUNG Yiu-chung's amendment to Mr. CHAN Wing-chan's motion proposed and put. The President stated that he thought the amendment had been negatived.

Mr. CHAN Wing-chan replied.

Question on CHAN Wing-chan's motion put. The President stated that he thought the motion had been negatived.

Mr. CHAN Wing-chan claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

The President announced that there were 20 votes for the motion and 27 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex VII.) He declared that Mr. CHAN Wing-chan's motion was negatived.

REVIEW OF INDUSTRIAL SAFETY IN HONG KONG

Dr. Samuel WONG moved the following motion and addressed the Council :

That this Council supports the recommendations in the "Consultation Paper on the Review of Industrial Safety in Hong Kong" published in July 1995 and urges the Government and other bodies concerned to implement the relevant recommendations as soon as practicable in order to improve safety standards and safety practices in workplaces in Hong Kong.

Question on Dr. Samuel WONG's motion proposed.

Mr. Ronald ARCULLI, Mr. TSANG Kin-shing and Dr. C.H. LEONG addressed the Council on the motion and their proposed amendments respectively.

12 Members spoke on the motion and the amendments.

Dr. Samuel WONG spoke on the amendments.

The Secretary for Education and Manpower spoke on the motion and the amendments.

Mr. Ronald ARCULLI moved the following amendment to Dr. Samuel WONG's motion :

To delete "supports" and substitute with "calls for the implementation of"; to delete "and urges the Government and other bodies concerned to implement the relevant recommendations as soon as practicable in order to improve safety standards and safety" and substitute with "primarily by Codes of Practices which will ensure the sharing of the responsibility for and improvement in safety and health standards and"; and to add ", and urges the Government, in consultation with other bodies, to introduce a practical and realistic timetable for such implementation" after "practices in workplaces in Hong Kong".

Question on Mr. Ronald ARCULLI's amendment to Dr. Samuel WONG's motion proposed and put. The President stated that he thought the amendment had been negatived.

Mr. Ronald ARCULLI claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

The President announced that there were eight votes for the amendment and 33 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex VIII.) He declared that Mr. Ronald ARCULLI's amendment to Dr. Samuel WONG's motion was negatived.

Mr. TSANG Kin-shing moved the following amendment to Dr. Samuel WONG's motion:

To delete "supports" and substitute with "notes"; and to delete "and urges the Government and other bodies concerned to implement the relevant recommendations as soon as practicable in order to improve safety standards and safety practices in workplaces in Hong Kong" and substitute with "but regrets the delay of the Government in improving occupational safety and health for the overall Hong Kong workforce and, in order to achieve comprehensive protection of occupational safety and health for all employees, urges the Government to :

1. rectify the erroneous policy which neglects occupational safety and health;
2. strengthen the relevant legislation and set aside more resources so as to provide comprehensive occupational safety and health protection for all industrial and non-industrial employees;
3. enact legislation expeditiously to require the setting up of safety committees in all occupations and trades, giving employee representatives adequate monitoring powers; and
4. strengthen the enforcement of law and impose heavy penalties on employers for malpractices".

Question on Mr. TSANG Kin-shing's amendment to Dr. Samuel WONG's motion proposed and put. The President stated that he thought the amendment was agreed.

Dr. C.H. LEONG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

The President announced that there were 30 votes for the amendment and 12 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex IX.) He declared that Mr. TSANG Kin-shing's amendment to Dr. Samuel WONG's motion was agreed.

Dr. C.H. LEONG withdrew his amendment to Dr. Samuel WONG's motion.

Question on Dr. Samuel WONG's motion as amended by Mr. TSANG Kin-shing put and agreed to.

MEMBER'S BILLS

FIRST READING

Immigration (Amendment) Bill 1995

Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi Bill

The Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi (Merger of Subsidiaries) Bill

The bills were read the first time and ordered to be set down for second reading pursuant to Standing Order 41(3).

SECOND READING

IMMIGRATION (AMENDMENT) BILL 1995

Mr. Michael HO moved the second reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the second reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Standing Orders, the debate was adjourned and the bill was referred to the House Committee.

Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi Bill

The Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi (Merger of Subsidiaries) Bill

Dr. David LI moved the second reading and addressed the Council on each of the above two bills.

Question on the second reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Standing Orders, the debates on the above bills were adjourned and the bills were referred to the House Committee.

NEXT SITTING

In accordance with Standing Orders, the President adjourned the Council until Wednesday, 17 January 1996.

Adjourned accordingly at twenty-seven minutes to twelve o’clock.

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