LegCo Paper No. CB(3) 364/96-97

THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
MINUTES
No. 12 of 1996-97

Minutes of the sitting held on Wednesday 11 December 1996 at 2:30 pm

Members present:

    President-- The Honourable Andrew WONG Wang-fat, OBE, JP
    The Honourable Allen LEE Peng-fei, CBE, JP
    The Honourable Mrs Selina CHOW LIANG Shuk-yee, OBE, JP
    The Honourable Martin LEE Chu-ming, QC, JP
    Dr the Honourable David LI Kwok-po, OBE, LLD(Cantab), JP
    The Honourable NGAI Shiu-kit, OBE, JP
    The Honourable SZETO Wah
    The Honourable LAU Wong-fat, OBE, JP
    The Honourable Edward HO Sing-tin, OBE, JP
    The Honourable Ronald Joseph ARCULLI, OBE, JP
    The Honourable Mrs Miriam LAU Kin-yee, OBE, JP
    Dr the Honourable Edward LEONG Che-hung, OBE, JP
    The Honourable Albert CHAN Wai-yip
    The Honourable CHEUNG Man-kwong
    The Honourable CHIM Pui-chung
    The Honourable Frederick FUNG Kin-kee
    The Honourable Michael HO Mun-ka
    Dr the Honourable HUANG Chen-ya, MBE
    The Honourable Emily LAU Wai-hing
    The Honourable LEE Wing-tat
    The Honourable Eric LI Ka-cheung, OBE, JP
    The Honourable Fred LI Wah-ming
    The Honourable Henry TANG Ying-yen, JP
    The Honourable James TO Kun-sun
    Dr the Honourable Samuel WONG Ping-wai, MBE, FEng, JP
    Dr the Honourable Philip WONG Yu-hong
    Dr the Honourable YEUNG Sum
    The Honourable Howard YOUNG, JP
    The Honourable Zachary WONG Wai-yin
    The Honourable Christine LOH Kung-wai
    The Honourable James TIEN Pei-chun, OBE, JP
    The Honourable LEE Cheuk-yan
    The Honourable CHAN Kam-lam
    The Honourable CHAN Wing-chan
    The Honourable CHAN Yuen-han
    The Honourable Andrew CHENG Kar-foo
    The Honourable Paul CHENG Ming-fun
    The Honourable CHENG Yiu-tong
    Dr the Honourable Anthony CHEUNG Bing-leung
    The Honourable CHEUNG Hon-chung
    The Honourable CHOY Kan-pui, JP
    The Honourable David CHU Yu-lin
    The Honourable Albert HO Chun-yan
    The Honourable IP Kwok-him
    The Honourable LAU Chin-shek
    The Honourable Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen, JP
    Dr the Honourable LAW Cheung-kwok
    The Honourable LAW Chi-kwong
    The Honourable LEE Kai-ming
    The Honourable LEUNG Yiu-chung
    The Honourable Bruce LIU Sing-lee
    The Honourable LO Suk-ching
    The Honourable MOK Ying-fan
    The Honourable Margaret NG
    The Honourable NGAN Kam-chuen
    The Honourable SIN Chung-kai
    The Honourable TSANG Kin-shing
    Dr the Honourable John TSE Wing-ling
    The Honourable Mrs Elizabeth WONG CHIEN Chi-lien, CBE, ISO, JP
    The Honourable Lawrence YUM Sin-ling

Public officers attending:

The Honourable Mrs Anson CHAN, CBE, JP
The Chief Secretary
The Honourable Donald TSANG Yam-kuen, OBE, JP
The Financial Secretary
The Honourable Jeremy Fell MATHEWS, CMG, JP
The Attorney General
Michael SUEN Ming-yeung, CBE, JP
Secretary for Home Affairs
Mr Gordon SIU Kwing-chue, JP
Secretary for Transport
Mr Dominic WONG Shing-wah, OBE, JP
Secretary for Housing
Mrs Katherine FOK LO Shiu-ching, OBE, JP
Secretary for Health and Welfare
Mr Rafael HUI Si-yan, JP
Secretary for Financial Services
Mr Peter LAI Hing-ling, JP
Secretary for Security
Mr Bowen LEUNG Po-wing, JP
Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands
Mr Stephen IP Shu-kwan, JP
Secretary for Economic Services
Mr KWONG Hon-sang, JP
Secretary for Works

Clerks in attendance:

Mr Ricky FUNG Choi-cheung
Secretary General
Mr LAW Kam-sang
Deputy Secretary General
Mrs Justina LAM CHENG Bo-ling
Assistant Secretary General (2)
Mr Ray CHAN Yum-mou
Assistant Secretary General (3)



Papers

The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order No. 14(2):

Subsidiary Legislation

L.N. NO.

1. Employment Agency (Amendment) (No.2) Regulation 1996

509/96

2. Official Languages (Alteration of Text) (Massage Establishments Ordinance) Order 1996

510/96

3. Pilotage Ordinance (Amendment of Schedule 2) Notice 1996

511/96

4. Specification of Public Office

512/96

5. The Hong Kong Association of Banks (Amendment) Ordinance 1995 (76 of 1995) (Commencement) Notice 1996

513/96

6. Personal Data (Privacy) Ordinance (Cap.486) (Commencement) (No.2) Notice 1996

514/96

7. Land Registration (Amendment) (No.2) Regulation 1996 (L.N.445 of 1996) (Commencement) Notice 1996

515/96

8. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Massage Establishments Ordinance) Order

(C) 125/96

9. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Ocean Park Corporation Ordinance) Order

(C) 126/96

10. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Community Chest of Hong Kong Ordinance) Order

(C) 127/96

Sessional Papers 1996-97

No. 39 - Sir Edward Youde Memorial Fund Report of the Board of Trustees for the period 1st April 1995 to 31st March 1996

No. 40 - Report of the Chinese Temples Committee on the administration of the Chinese Temples Fund for the year ended 31 March 1996

No. 41 - Report of the Chinese Temples Committee on the administration of the General Chinese Charities Fund for the year ended 31 March 1996

No. 42 - Hong Kong Housing Authority Annual Report 1995/96

No. 43 - Hong Kong Housing Authority Annual Accounts for the year ended 31 March 1996 and Balance Sheet as at that date

Announcement

Before the Council commenced the business set out on the Order Paper, the President announced that in view of the interest shown by some Members in his intention to become a Member of the Provisional Legislature, he would like to make an announcement regarding his candidature as a Member of the Provisional Legislature of the future Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.

The President said he would like to advise Members that he handed in his nomination form for election as a Member of the Provisional Legislature last Saturday. He wished to assure Members that during the period in which he ran for election as a Member of the Provisional Legislature and if he was to be elected as a Member of the Provisional Legislature, during the time of his service with the Provisional Legislature he would continue to discharge his duty as President of this Council to the best of his ability, without fear or favour, as he had done before.

Questions

1. Mr Howard YOUNG asked Question 1.

The Secretary for Security replied.

A Member asked a supplementary and the Secretary for Security replied.

2. Mr WONG Wai-yin asked Question 2.

The Secretary for Transport replied.

Six Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Transport replied.

3. Miss CHAN Yuen-han asked Question 3.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

Two Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

4. Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung asked Question 4.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

Seven Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

5. Mr HO Chun-yan asked Question 5.

The Secretary for Works replied.

Four Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Works replied.

6. Mr YUM Sin-ling asked Question 6.

The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands replied.

Six Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands replied.

Written replies to Questions 7 to 19 were tabled for Members’ information.

Government Bills

First Reading

Securities and Futures Commission (Amendment) (No.3) Bill 1996

The Bill was read the first time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Standing Order No. 41(3).

Second Reading

Securities and Futures Commission (Amendment) (No.3) Bill 1996

The Secretary for Financial Services moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Standing Orders, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee.

Whaling Industry (Regulation) Bill

Resumption of debate on Second Reading which had been moved on 30 October 1996.

Question on Second Reading put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

Committee Stage

The Council went into Committee and considered the Whaling Industry (Regulation) Bill

Question that the following clauses and schedule stand part of the Bill proposed.

Question on clauses 1 to 14 put and agreed to.

Question on the schedule put and agreed to.

The Council then resumed.

Third Reading

The Secretary for Economic Services reported that

the Whaling Industry (Regulation) Bill

had passed through Committee without amendment. He moved that the Bill be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the Third Reading proposed, put and agreed to.

Bill read the third time and passed.

Members' Motions

Landlord and Tenant (Consolidation) Ordinance

Mr James TO moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That section 48(1) of the Landlord and Tenant (Consolidation) Ordinance be amended by repealing "31 December 1996" and substituting "31 December 1998".

Question on the motion proposed.

Six Members and the Secretary for Housing spoke on the motion.

Mr James TO replied.

Question on the motion put. As the President could not judge from the voice votes whether the 'ayes' had it or the 'noes' had it, he ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order No. 36(4).

The President announced that there were 38 votes for the motion and 14 votes against it. (Voting record in Appendix I.) He declared that the motion was carried.

Landlord and Tenant (Consolidation) Ordinance

Mr James TO moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Landlord and Tenant (Consolidation) Ordinance be amended -

(a) in section 58(2) -

(i) in paragraph (b) by repealing "30%" and substituting "20%";

(ii) in the proviso -

(A) by repealing "After 30 June 1996" and substituting "After 30 June 1996 and before 13 December 1996";

(B) by adding "After 12 December 1996" and "80" at the end of the columns headed "Period" and "Percentage of prevailing market rent" respectively;

(b) in section 74B(1) by repealing "31 December 1996" and substituting "31 December 1998".

Question on the motion proposed.

The Secretary for Housing spoke on the motion.

Mr James TO replied.

Question on the motion put. As the President could not judge from the voice votes whether the 'ayes' had it or the 'noes' had it, he ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order No. 36(4).

The President announced that there were 37 votes for the motion and 16 votes against it. (Voting record in Appendix II.) He declared that the motion was carried.

Maintenance of Hong Kong-Taiwan relations by the Chief Executive of the Special Administrative Region

Mr YUM Sin-ling moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Chief Executive of the Special Administrative Region should not change the existing Hong Kong Government policy and way of handling Hong Kong-Taiwan relations, so as not to affect the current social and cultural exchanges between people of the two territories, and not to jeopardize the bilateral trade which amounts to HK$200 billion annually as well as the HK$15 billion annual income which the Hong Kong's tourist industry earns from visitors from Taiwan.

Question on the motion proposed.

A Member spoke on the motion.

At 5:05 pm, the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

Another three Members spoke on the motion.

At 5:24 pm, the President resumed the chair.

A further Member spoke on the motion.

Mr YUM Sin-ling replied.

Question on the motion put. As the President could not judge from the voice votes whether the 'ayes' had it or the 'noes' had it, he ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order No. 36(4).

The President announced that there were 22 votes for the motion and 22 votes against it. (Voting record in Appendix III.) The President stated that he had previously exercised his casting vote in accordance with Speaker DENISON's decision in 1867. He then exercised his casting vote in the negative and declared that the motion was negatived.

First Chief Executive of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region

Miss Emily LAU moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That this Council does not believe that the first Chief Executive of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR), who is selected today not through universal franchise, will have the determination to safeguard a high degree of autonomy and resist the Chinese Government's interference with the HKSAR.

Question on Miss Emily LAU's motion proposed. The President stated that Mr Paul CHENG had given notice to move an amendment to the motion and Dr YEUNG Sum had also given notice to move an amendmnet to Mr CHENG's proposed amendment. He proposed that the motion, the amendment and the amendment to amendment be debated together in a joint debate. There being no dissenting voice, the President ordered that the motion and the proposed amendments be debated together in a joint debate.

Mr Paul CHENG moved the following amendment to Miss Emily LAU's motion and addressed the Council:

To delete "does not believe that" and substitute with "congratulates"; to delete "first"; to add "designate" after "Chief Executive"; to delete ", who is selected" and substitute with "on his election"; to delete "not through universal franchise, will have the" and substitute with "by the representative 400-member Selection Committee and hopes that he will work with"; and to delete "and resist the Chinese Government's interference with the HKSAR" and substitute with "for the HKSAR as stipulated in the Basic Law, so as to enhance Hong Kong's prosperity and stability".

Question on Mr Paul CHENG's amendment to Miss Emily LAU's motion proposed.

Dr YEUNG Sum moved the following amendment to Mr Paul CHENG's proposed amendment and addressed the Council:

To delete "congratulates" and substitute with "considers the election of"; to delete "on his election"; to delete "representative"; to add "only" after "400-member"; to add "lacks representativeness," after "Selection Committee"; to delete "hopes that he will" and substitute with "strongly urges the Chief Executive designate to"; to delete "as stipulated in the Basic Law" and substitute with "and to have the courage to pursue with the Chinese Government the HKSAR's democracy, human rights, freedoms and the rule of law"; to delete the "and" in "Hong Kong's prosperity and" and substitute with ","; and to add "and progress" after "stability".

Question on Dr YEUNG Sum's amendment to Mr Paul CHENG's amendment proposed.

18 Members spoke on the motion and the amendments.

At 7:45 pm, the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

Another four Members spoke on the motion and the amendments.

At 8:02 pm, the President resumed the chair.

Seven further Members spoke on the motion and the amendments.

The President invited Mr Paul CHENG to speak for the second time on Dr YEUNG Sum's amendment.

Miss Emily LAU spoke on the amendments.

Question on Dr YEUNG Sum's amendment to Mr Paul CHENG's amendment put. Mr TSANG Kin-shing claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order No. 36(4).

The President announced that there were 21 votes for the amendment and 31 votes against it. (Voting record in Appendix IV.) He declared that Dr YEUNG Sum's amendment to Mr Paul CHENG's amendment was negatived.

Question on Mr Paul CHENG's amendment to Miss Emily LAU's motion put. Dr Philip WONG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order No. 36(4).

The President announced that there were 31 votes for the amendment and 26 votes against it. (Voting record in Appendix V.) He declared that Mr Paul CHENG's amendment to Miss Emily LAU's motion was agreed.

Miss Emily LAU replied.

Question on Miss Emily LAU's motion as amended by Mr Paul CHENG put. Miss Emily LAU and Dr Philip WONG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order No. 36(4).

The President announced that there were 31 votes for the amended motion and 26 votes against it. (Voting record in Appendix VI.) He declared that Miss Emily LAU's motion as amended by Mr Paul CHENG was carried.

Members' Bills

First Reading

Housing (Amendment) (No.3) Bill 1996

The Bill was read the first time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Standing Order No. 41(3).

Second Reading

Housing (Amendment) (No.3) Bill 1996

Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Standing Orders, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee.

Public Order (Amendment) Bill 1996

Resumption of debate on Second Reading which had been moved on 9 October 1996.

Five Members and the Secretary for Security spoke on the motion.

Mr James TO replied.

Question on Second Reading put. Mr James TO claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order No. 36(4).

The President announced that there were 32 votes for the motion and 23 votes against it. (Voting record in Appendix VII.) He declared that the motion on Second Reading was carried.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

Committee Stage

The Council went into Committee and considered the Public Order (Amendment) Bill 1996

Question that the following clauses stand part of the Bill proposed.

Question on clause 1 put. As the Chairman could not judge from the voice votes whether the 'ayes' had it or the 'noes' had it, he ordered the Committee to divide under Standing Order No. 36(4).

The Chairman announced that there were 32 votes for the motion and 23 votes against it. (Voting record in Appendix VIII.) He declared that the motion that clause 1 stand part of the Bill was carried.

The Secretary for Security moved an amendment to clause 2 and addressed the Committee.

Question on the amendment proposed.

Three Members spoke on the amendment.

Question on the amendment put. As the Chairman could not judge from the voice votes whether the 'ayes' had it or the 'noes' had it, he ordered the Committee to divide under Standing Order No. 36(4).

The Chairman announced that there were 40 votes for the amendment and 15 votes against it. (Voting record in Appendix IX.) He declared that the Secretary for Security's amendment on clause 2 was agreed.

Question that clause 2, as amended, stand part of the Bill put. The Chairman stated that he thought the motion had been carried. Mr IP Kwok-him claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Standing Order No. 36(4).

The Chairman announced that there were 40 votes for the motion and 15 votes against it. (Voting record in Appendix X.) He declared that the motion that clause 2, as amended, stand part of the Bill was carried.

Question on clause 3 put. As the Chairman could not judge from the voice votes whether the 'ayes' had it or the 'noes' had it, he ordered the Committee to divide under Standing Order No. 36(4).

The Chairman announced that there were 25 votes for the motion and 29 votes against it. (Voting record in Appendix XI.) He declared that the motion that clause 3 stand part of the Bill was negatived.

The Council then resumed.

Third Reading

Mr James TO reported that

the Public Order (Amendment) Bill 1996

had passed through Committee with amendment. He moved that the Bill be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the Third Reading proposed and put. As the President could not judge from the voice votes whether the 'ayes' had it or the 'noes' had it, he ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order No. 36(4).

The President announced that there were 40 votes for the motion and 16 votes against it. (Voting record in Appendix XII.) He declared that the motion was carried.

Bill read the third time and passed.

Next sitting

In accordance with Standing Orders, the President adjourned the Council until Wednesday, 18 December 1996.

Adjourned accordingly at twenty-eight minutes past ten o'clock.

(Andrew WONG)
President
Council Chamber
Hong Kong


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